If you are an adrenaline junkie, becoming an action sports cinematographer might be a dream job.
This week, Ben Dann, cinematographer for Teton Gravity Research (TGR), shares his journey of traveling the world filming for TGR. In this episode Ben shares how he preps for shooting in the back country, favorite gear he uses, and how to get into the industry.
Watch Ben to learn how you can become an action sports cinematographer.
Key Points:
2:23 – How he got started
1:30 – How he got started
4:17 – Internship at Teton Gravity Research (TGR)
12:02 – Working in the commercial world
17:37 – Letting new people in to the field
22:40 – Freelancing with TGR
25:04 – Daily rates
29:42 – Jobs he would say no to
38:09 – Something going wrong
42:05 – Favorite Shoot
43:20 – How to get into the industry
44:08 – Upcoming Red Bull event
45:26 – Scope of work
Links
Justin Fann Episode
David Allen Arnold Episode
Follow Dan on Instagram
Full Transcript:
Ben Dann (00:00):
As he exits his line, he lands in that gully, right as that snow and ice gets to him. And it swipes him off his feet and carries him through these standard trees and breaks his arm, and gets buried on that lake surface-
Tanya Musgrave (00:17):
On my word.
Ben Dann (00:18):
… with about like two meters of snow. In that process of him getting swiped through the trees, his beacon got turned off.
Tanya Musgrave (00:25):
Oh no.
Ben Dann (00:26):
The avalanche beacons is how we locate people buried in the snow. And that’s what we train for is using those beacons to locate them.
Tanya Musgrave (00:33):
Welcome to The Practical Filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by The Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival. We’re industry professionals, talking nuts and bolts, and the steps they took to find their success today.
On today’s show, Ben Dann talks avalanches, what it takes to shoot action sports and the best traits to have in order to crew the outdoor film world. Find the full transcripts and more at thepracticalfilmmaker.com.
I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave. And today, we have action sports cinematographer, Ben Dann, joining us, getting shots for the crazy world of Teton Gravity Research, Red Bull and HBO. Welcome to the show.
Ben Dann (00:33):
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Tanya Musgrave (01:09):
Yeah. Okay. We had gotten a peek into this insane world with one of our previous guests, Justin Fann, and we broke down the differences between this kind of filmmaking and the traditional Hollywood model, like how the annual sports films get made and tour around, brand partnerships, et cetera. How did you get into this world?
Ben Dann (01:31):
I grew up in Jackson, Wyoming, which super lucky kid, I was able to grow up skiing and kayaking, and mountain biking. And that was my whole world for a long time. I got my first camera, senior in high school. My whole world was whitewater for a long time. And you’ll find a lot of kayakers in that world. A lot of them are photographers or filmmakers, just because hard whitewater takes you to some of the most beautiful places in the world. And those people are the ones who can capture it. So, it’s like a pretty infectious part of that world.
A ton of my whitewater friends are photographers in cities that I work with all the time still. And that drove the beginning of my filmmaking for a long time. And it wasn’t a career or any sort of income for me. It was just what I loved.
And then I went to college in Bellingham, Washington at Western Washington University. Still kayaking was a huge part of my driving force there. I had an amazing crew of friends there. And there was class for whitewater, 30 minutes from campus. And that was our whole world. School was somewhat of a side note. When I was applying for colleges, I circled all the places where there was good whitewater, close to campus. And I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with my life at that point. And it was just like, “I’ll just go.” And I got super lucky with finding an amazing crew of people there. And I ended up falling in love with film and did some summer internships during college with Brain Farm when they were still a thing and Teton Gravity Research.
And I actually started as a mechanical engineering major in college, and then halfway through the people at my class weren’t really my scene. And I just wanted to change the pace. And I was super into film and was looking into film schools. And nothing was motivating enough for me to leave what I had in Bellingham.
So, I found the graphic design program at Western, which is awesome. And the graphic world is much different than the video world, but I was able to apply a lot of that work into my video career. And it made me look at compositions differently.
And I love my classmates. I love my courses and all my work. And professors allowed me to do quite a bit of video and motion graphic work for those graphic design classes.
Tanya Musgrave (03:43):
Nice.
Ben Dann (03:44):
I never really wish I went to film school. Yeah. I loved the courses that I took in my college career, and that really set me up nicely for a career in film.
Tanya Musgrave (03:55):
It’s great. I mean, because honestly, like at my film school, we had graphic design and animation and fine art, I think even all on the same floor. So, I mean, it’s the same kind of vein of people. And I don’t know. It’s probably that same comradery that you found. It was the same at ours too.
Ben Dann (04:14):
Totally.
Tanya Musgrave (04:14):
It was solid. You grazed over this part about internships for a couple of people. But you said that you had an internship with TGR. How did you land that?
Ben Dann (04:27):
I had some video projects from school that I had done and from my whitewater career. I got super lucky early on. I met this guy named Kevin Pritchard, who’s a professional wind surfer when I was in Jackson. And we met filming. We were both just mountain biking and filming stuff on the past, and that’s how we met. And he hired me to come and film American windsurfing tour events.
Tanya Musgrave (04:50):
Oh, okay.
Ben Dann (04:51):
The first one I went to was in Mexico, and then one in Hawaii. And I mean, I was be great at best filmer at this point. I was 18 or 19 at 70, in a long lens. And he flew me out to these places, and had me film this stuff. And it was an amazing experience to see a world I’d never really been a part of before. But there was this German editor who was putting these projects together and he was an absolute wizard, and he would edit these entire projects and after effects. And he made my work look so good. So, very early on in my career, I had some really nice pieces of work to show people.
Tanya Musgrave (05:31):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Dann (05:31):
And he made me look like an absolute magician, which was an amazing leg off to get me started. It definitely got me some jobs I may have not deserved.
Tanya Musgrave (05:43):
Come on. Come on. Well, you surrounded yourself with the right people. I mean, that’s after the job really.
Ben Dann (05:47):
Right. But it allowed me to take on opportunities and step up to the challenges. And it was an awesome way to start. So, that’s how I used those elements to apply to Teton Gravity Research. I was a local kid, which maybe it had given me an advantage.
Tanya Musgrave (06:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Ben Dann (06:02):
But no, I got to go to TGR and cut all of their DVD extras and do a bunch of editing work for them for the films, for their ski films. I think it was the year of The Dream Factory, which was like a full Alaska based ski film.
Tanya Musgrave (06:16):
Oh, okay.
Ben Dann (06:17):
Danny Holland was like my boss there. And Joe Graffi and Danny moved on to work for Brain Farm. And there’s just a really great community of people at TGR. And that got me into the fold. And then I went back to college. I finished school, and then I graduated college, moved back to Jackson, was here for a few months, was living at my dad’s house. And then moved into J. Fann’s house actually. They see a room open up. So J. Fann and I were living together, which is awesome.
And then Jeremy Jones Hire television together. We did an outside TV show for Jeremy Jones Hire. And that was my first job with TGR. And then later that winter, I got to go on my first shoot in the field. And then the rest has been history from there.
Tanya Musgrave (07:03):
Been history. Okay. So, the fact that you didn’t go to formal film school worked out in a way, because it’s not like the roles that you would have on set necessarily translate to what you’re shooting now.
Ben Dann (07:21):
Yeah. No, a hundred percent. I mean, I never went to film school, so I can’t really comment on how much of it would’ve applied to what I do now.
Tanya Musgrave (07:29):
I mean, like some the stuff that you were talking about, like design principles and that kind of thing, you learn the lighting and you learn equipment, and that kind of a thing. But a lot of times when we put together practice shoots, we have your director, your first 82nd, second 80, all of that fun stuff. The impression that I got from Justin is that you don’t necessarily have those particular types of roles on set. There’s that necessarily.
Ben Dann (07:54):
No.
Tanya Musgrave (07:55):
Okay.
Ben Dann (07:56):
Definitely not. Yeah. No, it’s definitely a somewhat of a one man band out there. I’ve done trips where you have a bunch of people in a shorter period of time. There’s maybe a director there. There’s aerial specialists. There’s ground angles and all this sort of stuff. It scales quite in a big way. But for most of what we do for the ski film stuff for TGR, it’s a lot of, you’re the one waking up in the morning, putting packs together, going to the field, shooting all day. Usually there’s no more than three camera people. I’ve shot plenty of segments where I’m the only camera person.
Tanya Musgrave (08:31):
Oh my gosh.
Ben Dann (08:34):
And then you go home and you offload footage, and you charge batteries, and you go to sleep, and you wake up and do it again. And some of my fondest memories are being the only person out there.
Tanya Musgrave (08:43):
Really?
Ben Dann (08:44):
Yeah, for sure. I shot an awesome POWDR segment with Nick McNutt and Tim Durtschi in the Whistler area. And I think it might have been for Rogue Elements, but we had-
Tanya Musgrave (08:54):
Rogue Elements, I remember that one. Okay. Continue.
Ben Dann (08:58):
We’d been there for a month and conditions were up and down, up and down, not really super productive times. And then, Tim and I had actually, we had pulled the plug. We were heading home. We made it to Bellingham. And we had spent the night in Bellingham. And then Nick called us in the morning was like, “Turn back on. You guys got to come back up.” It snowed a bunch on one cliff. Conditions were stable. And we just spent the next three days just hammering on a POWDR segment, just the three of us. It was amazing. It was so productive. And I mean, those moments are few and far between a small window with the right people and have everything come together with stability and snow and white.
Tanya Musgrave (09:35):
Yeah. It’s lightning in a bottle.
Ben Dann (09:37):
I’ve been on so many ski film projects. Ski film is always the hardest. There’s so many more extra variables with weather and conditions, and snow, and crew dynamics, and all this sort of stuff. And it’s fairly rare to walk away from a shoot and just be like, “Yes, we got it. Everything was perfect. We nailed it the whole time.” And there’s plenty of segments that like, when you watch the final cut, it feels like that, but when you walk away, you’re like, “Oh, I don’t know. That was hard work. It wasn’t perfect the whole time, but we made it out and walked away with a bunch of great shots and a great segment, and a great story.”
Tanya Musgrave (10:12):
Yeah. And that’s amazing too, because I know that feeling of just like, you end up finding the gems in posts, but yeah, walking away, you’re just like, “I don’t know what I got.” But it makes sense that a large crew necessarily out there would not bode as well, as far as moving quickly and catching those conditions as you get them.
Ben Dann (10:37):
For sure.
Tanya Musgrave (10:39):
I can’t remember which film it was, but I remember, I think it was probably at the end of one of the band films, but I saw a picture of their crew and it was like 20 or 30 plus people. And I was shocked because I had always assumed that it was like the one man band out there, but I’m just like, “Oh my word, they have actual crew like everybody else.” But talking to Justin, he was just like, “Yeah, that’s not usually what you have. That’s not what you usually get.”
Ben Dann (11:05):
It’s certainly not. But sometimes you get lucky in it and there’s bigger budgets. But at the same time, I’ve been TGR’s snowmobile film specialist for quite a few years. When you start adding people, just moving people in the mountains is hard. And the more people you add, the slower it is, and potentially the less productive it can be. So, sometimes it’s really nice to be on those big commercial sets when every person has the specific job, and they kind of make things a little more streamlined and make things happen, especially in those short windows like, “We only have three days to get all this stuff.” If any afternoon that something was missed, that’s a huge loss. But we’re always on these longer trips, and just the ability to move quickly in the mountains and make decisions quickly, and that’s what makes or breaks it. I’d much rather have way more of a workload on myself and be able to move quickly interesting than have a bunch of help.
Tanya Musgrave (11:59):
Yeah. Yeah. So, you had mentioned commercial. So, you’ve delved into the commercial world then as well. Yeah?
Ben Dann (12:06):
Yeah. I have done some commercial work. It’s all still in the action sports world, whether it’s like car commercials where they’re going skiing, or phone commercials where they’re shooting mountain biking, or things along those lines. It’s all still in the action sports realm, but it’s fun to dive into those because action sports has become more and more mainstream over the years and people are familiar with it and want to see in mainstream media, which is cool.
Tanya Musgrave (12:35):
How was that transition? Now, I mean, just like that first pivot point of like, “Hey, I’ve been doing this one man band thing for so long, and this commercial wants me to come onto their shoot.” So, all of a sudden, what was it like jumping into that world?
Ben Dann (12:51):
I mean, there’s hierarchy there and there’s people to tell you what to do or what they want. And you’re not just out there making it up on the fly. So, it’s nice to have some kind of structure like that a few times.
Tanya Musgrave (13:04):
Yeah.
Ben Dann (13:04):
I haven’t really been on like a hundred person commercial or even a 50 person commercial. I’ve been on sets with like 20 people. And there’s definitely more pressure because there’s a lot more eyes on you to perform, but I like them both. It’s nice to have a mixture.
Tanya Musgrave (13:20):
So, you’re prepping for one of these weeks long shoots. What’s happening in the weeks leading up, working out and setting up life insurance? I mean, he did mention some of that crazy risk insurance. Is that like, do you set those up? How long does it take to get all of this, all the boring stuff? What’s happening, everything?
Ben Dann (13:46):
I mean, usually the producers at TGR will get life insurance or Global Rescue insurance policies for us.
Tanya Musgrave (13:53):
So, you’re not getting any individual, like extra.
Ben Dann (13:56):
No, I mean, it’s just the Global Rescue, it’s pretty comprehensive. If something were to happen, if you were to get injured anywhere in the world, they’ll get you to a hospital of your choosing or get you back home. And so, it’s just like a worst case scenario kind of stuff. And we have those on the back burner always. Knock on wood, I’ve never had to make that call.
We also carry those Garmin inReach devices, which are like satellite communicators. And we’ve had to use those before, but they’re super handy tools as well on those long winter camping missions that we do. It’s great to be able to text home or talk to someone back in the office to run some logistics or whatever.
But as far as like preparation for those trips go, it’s a lot of just making sure you got the right equipment and the right knowledge, and what the snow pack looks like where you’re going. And building the proper team and group dynamics is super important to me in the field and all that sort of stuff. It’s not too much different than you would prep for another shoot. It’s just like making sure you got the right stuff, make sure you got the right plan and the right people, and just go from there.
Tanya Musgrave (15:07):
Regarding those safety conditions, what’s happening the night before the shot or even the day before? Or do you do it the morning of like stuff would change already from night to day?
Ben Dann (15:17):
Yeah. I mean, it’s very storm based and weather based, as things change. And there’s layers in the snow, and some of those layers create problems and persistent issues. And you just want to be familiar. Frequently, we have guides who will take on some of the load, but sometimes there’s not, and it’s on us to make those decisions. And we’ll dig pits, which you dig a hole in the snow, and you can look at all the profile of all the layers and make a decision, and see how supportive it is. And that’s like another big part of our world is not only am I this cinematographer, but I’m trained in, I have a Wilderness First Responder, which is like a medical rescue certification. And I have my avalanche two certification, which is the whole thing on avalanche stability and avalanche rescue, and predicting these problem layers and all that sort of stuff.
And TGR has an amazing program called International Pro Riders Workshop, which they run every year. And they bring all the cinematographers and the athletes, and all these guides, and educators to teach us and refresh us on some of these things we deal with in the field every day.
Tanya Musgrave (16:24):
Wow. Wow. Wow. So, name the avalanche one again.
Ben Dann (16:29):
I have my avalanche two, which is like a, there’s a whole series of avalanche courses. And then there’s the Wilderness First Responder, which is the medical training that I have.
Tanya Musgrave (16:39):
Someone not necessarily in Jackson, where would you go to get this kind of training? Could you just sign up for it?
Ben Dann (16:49):
Yeah. You can just go sign up for it. There’s a handful of institutes that teach avalanche rescue and avalanche training. And they’re frequently in mountain towns all over the country. And anyone can go and get that training. And if you’re planning on traveling in the back country, it’s like the first thing you do is get the proper equipment, which is the controlled probe and you get this training.
Tanya Musgrave (17:12):
Wow.
Ben Dann (17:13):
And it’s the safest and best way to learn how to move in the mountains outside of the ski resort.
Tanya Musgrave (17:20):
So, one of the things that you had mentioned was group dynamics. Newcomers, I’ve talked to Justin and talked with another guy. He was in the field for like Nat Geo. And one of the things that they were talking about when it came to letting newcomers into the group was, “Okay, all you got to do really is to create your own work and keep up.” That it’s along the lines of like, okay, we can’t get out there in negative whatever weather. And it’s a 20 day shoot and you crack out on day five, that kind of a thing. Is there something else, is there an equivalent of like, I don’t know, something sweeping the baseboards, some small detail that you would look for in a beginner that would be an automatic, “You’re definitely coming out again.”
Ben Dann (18:03):
Yeah. I think that people who have really high attention to detail is super important to me. I’ve always found people with those tendencies to have what it takes to do more, and observant and attention to detail is like the two biggest things. And even to the point where if you open someone else’s backpack and you look inside their backpack, and if it’s just a pile of shit, it’s like, that’s a red flag for me right away. But there’s exceptions in that world too. I do have some people who I open their backpack, its like, “Good God.” But they’re amazing in the field and they’re incredible skiers, but that’s like one of those things where I’m like, right. If they’re keeping a tight show in their pack, then they’re going to potentially do well for me.
Tanya Musgrave (18:52):
No, that was actually a really good answer too. I mean, like keeping your pack. I mean, that’s a really good answer.
Ben Dann (18:59):
Yeah. It depends on the trip, but these trips are long and grueling, and there’s an emotional element there as well. You got to be able to keep up when it’s go time, but you also have to be able to sit there for two weeks when the snow sucks. One of the first winter camping trips I ever went on was in BC. And we got up onto this glacier. When we set up camp, we knew we were surrounded by cloud terrain. So, we knew we couldn’t really stray far from our tent circle without being able to see. And it snowed for two weeks straight. And we sat in that tent for two weeks-
Tanya Musgrave (19:38):
Oh my gosh, no.
Ben Dann (19:38):
… not being able to move. To be able to have people who are super talented in the field, super talented in the mountains, super talented with the camera, and can also sit there and not crack for two weeks, that’s an important melody to have, because we call it poisoning the well, but if you get someone who poisons the well, it takes the whole group down and it’s not good.
Tanya Musgrave (20:01):
Have you ever been in a situation where they got rid of the poison?
Ben Dann (20:04):
Luckily, the poison never really showed up.
Tanya Musgrave (20:06):
All right. All right, man. Yeah. That’s awesome too.
Ben Dann (20:10):
Yeah. TGR has always done a really good job on those big expeditions. They take the sinis, they take their advice on who they think will be good for the job. And then they take into consideration group dynamics and all this stuff. As I’ve done more and more of these trips, I’ve found what an essential thing that is. And I’ve had bad experiences on short trips or like two day trips, or it’s like, it’s things you can get away from. You can go to your hotel at night or go home at night and recalibrate, and just be able to deal. You can see the end and you’re like, “Okay, this will be fine.” But when you’re in a gnarly situation on the side of a mountain in a snowstorm, you don’t want anyone just unraveling on you.
Tanya Musgrave (20:54):
No. Oh my gosh. In traditional filmmaking, they have the union. So, they have the union and like union rates and all that stuff. That’s like the pinnacle, I guess you could say, because that makes sure that you are on the pinnacle tier of projects. I don’t know. Is there any kind of unspoken or spoken, or listed structure where you would find the cream of the crop? If you’re in with this group, you are able to get on this tier level of projects.
Ben Dann (21:32):
There definitely isn’t that. There’s not that.
Tanya Musgrave (21:32):
Okay. All right.
Ben Dann (21:38):
TGR has a really big reputation in action sports world, for sure. But there’s also tons of other people who have that reputation. And maybe TGR has one of the bigger presences in the ski world, but there’s tons of other stuff outside of skiing. I feel like those communities are quite tight. I feel like you find yourself in one of those communities and they continually pull from that community. It can be challenging to bridge between those communities, but there is tons of mutual respect. And if you’re the right person for the job, you will get hired on, but there’s definitely no union type thing. Setting rates or companies like TGR have their top tier people who they can send on most projects. That recommendation travels through the industry, for sure.
Tanya Musgrave (22:27):
Are you then full time or are you still a freelancer with TGR?
Ben Dann (22:31):
Yeah, I’ve always been a freelancer since I graduated college. I started and became a freelancing photographer. And I’ve always done contract work with them, but I’ve been around for a long time.
Tanya Musgrave (22:40):
Okay. All right.
Ben Dann (22:42):
They would hire me on for, I would sign winter contract with them and work for them for the whole winter season and [inaudible 00:22:47]
Tanya Musgrave (22:47):
Oh, interesting.
Ben Dann (22:48):
And then come springtime or summer, I would change gears and do other stuff.
Tanya Musgrave (22:54):
Oh, so they have like seasonal contracts of just like, do they have like a spring or the summer contract then, or fall? I don’t know what it is.
Ben Dann (23:03):
When I first started working there, it was like, most of their stuff was very ski oriented.
Tanya Musgrave (23:07):
Okay. Okay.
Ben Dann (23:08):
We would go out and we’d film from December till April. And then the rest of the year was post-production. And they had a huge website presence. So, that’s a big part of the company. But that’s how it went.
But now TGR is dipped into the mountain bike world a bit more. So, we started doing mountain bike projects in the summer, and then the production and post-production cycle was more year round. And they’ve got some commercial contracts as well.
Tanya Musgrave (23:35):
Nice.
Ben Dann (23:36):
They’ve kept me really busy over the years. I’ve never been a salaried employee with them, which I’ve enjoyed. It’s nice to be able to step away and not burn out when you need the time and space, which is really, really nice for me. I really cut my teeth with TGR and I have a lot of respect for what they’ve done for my career and all the experience they’ve given me. And I’ll never stop working for them, for sure. But I do have other opportunities that I’m presenting as well.
Tanya Musgrave (24:03):
I have the highest respect for the freelance life. Same over here. Literally just because, I don’t know, sometimes it’s just nice to not get bored, to dip your toe and all these other times. So, we had talked a little bit about union, union rates. There’s not really anything that sets those rates. For union, when they post those, that’s kind of a pinnacle of pay that also happens, where people can expect to be paid a certain amount. And then it trickles down to indie films where it’s like, “Thanks, man. Here’s a good meal. You are awesome. Awesome. You want to come back and do it again for free.” Is it solely up to the individual filmmakers? How could a newcomer get into a higher pay bracket? Is there any kind of to your system?
Ben Dann (24:53):
Not that I’ve found.
Tanya Musgrave (24:54):
Okay. Okay.
Ben Dann (24:57):
But there is for sure. I mean, it’s very project dependent it seems.
Tanya Musgrave (25:02):
Okay. All right.
Ben Dann (25:03):
When there are bigger clients paying for the film. But even how much I get paid within TGR fluctuates quite a bit depending on the project. When they have higher budget projects and they’re able to pay me more, they do, which I really appreciate, which is awesome, but also it keeps the fire alive. And I can go on the ski film projects that don’t pay quite as well. But I do it because I love them, and I do it because I love the athletes, and I do it because I love the process. But no, it’s definitely a moving target. I wish it wasn’t. As a freelancer, it’s like bummer not knowing where your paycheck is coming from all the time.
Tanya Musgrave (25:37):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Dann (25:38):
Rates that I was excited about when I was 20 are like, are things I just straight up say no to now.
Tanya Musgrave (25:48):
Yeah.
Ben Dann (25:49):
And as anyone perfects their craft, they are able to charge more and more for it. But when you do things that people willingly want to do, it’s like, “Oh, my nephew will do this for free.” When it comes to like going up in helicopters and going skiing in crazy places, the line would be out the door, if they would just take anyone to go film that stuff for free. And I’m super grateful that I get to get paid to go do that stuff.
Tanya Musgrave (26:15):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Ben Dann (26:16):
That influence moves the price point sometimes. But when you get paid well to do that stuff, it’s amazing.
Tanya Musgrave (26:23):
Yeah. What would a newcomer expect for maybe a first time job that you would say no to even?
Ben Dann (26:33):
The first time I got to, I was offered like a director of photography job. It was like $200 a day.
Tanya Musgrave (26:40):
Okay.
Ben Dann (26:42):
Which was like, at the time I was like, “That’s so much.” A hundred bucks a day was standard for all the stuff that I had been doing.
Tanya Musgrave (26:42):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Dann (26:50):
Yeah. I mean, like 200 bucks a day, I’d have to be really passionate about. Since COVID happened, all my work dried up when COVID started like a hundred percent of it. And my girlfriend works at an animal adoption center here in Jackson. And I changed my entire workload to creating content for them, which was amazing.
Tanya Musgrave (27:11):
Wow.
Ben Dann (27:11):
It was like some of the most rewarding shooting I’ve ever done, just like animal rescue, and all these nonprofits coming together to move animals from parts of the country that are overloaded with animals to the north, where it’s much easier to re-home animals. And I’ve worked in action sports world where it’s heavy, gnarly.
Tanya Musgrave (27:33):
Hard rock montage.
Ben Dann (27:34):
Yeah. Hardcore, rock and roll action sports stuff, my whole career. And to step back and work with dogs and cats, and the nonprofit world was amazing. I mean, I made 50 bucks a day. And I loved it. It was basically enough to cover my camera insurance. It was a great way to step back from what I’ve been doing and recalibrate and like, “Okay. There’s more than just going out and doing gnarly stuff to move the needle for me.” It was cool.
Tanya Musgrave (28:05):
I don’t know. I think there’s like a deep part within all of us as artists that have to connect with some sort of deeper level of stuff of just like, “Oh yeah, I’m an artist in more than just one respect.” I don’t know. And sometimes it’s just a new medium, even that you come across, you’re just like, “Oh, hey, all of these skills, it actually translates over here too.” And there’s nothing wrong with finding something else that you can be just as passionate about. So, it’s pretty awesome to find other stuff.
Ben Dann (28:36):
For sure. I mean, but back to the rates and stuff. For me, I was saying yes, to blindly saying yes to basically anythin that came my way that was in the industry I was interested in. I didn’t care how much, as long as I was getting paid something and I was going to do something cool, I didn’t care. And I just kept saying yes. I kept saying yes. I was able to make enough money that I wasn’t going to have to take other jobs. So, my schedule was open. And I was just able to say yes at the drop of a pen. I went to go shoot a Ford commercial. And it was an AC gig. We drove from Portland, Oregon to Portland, Maine over the course of four days.
Tanya Musgrave (29:15):
What?
Ben Dann (29:17):
Someone called me and I had enough time to do my laundry, pack a bag and leave the same day to go do it. And because I had an open schedule, I was able to be like, “Yeah, it sounds great. I’ll go.”
Tanya Musgrave (29:29):
That’s so crazy.
Ben Dann (29:31):
And I think that was definitely like a big key to my success was just being able to say yes at the drop of a pen, and just go out and do a good job.
Tanya Musgrave (29:40):
So, besides the pay, is there any other job that you would 100% say no to?
Ben Dann (29:48):
I’ve had some weird ones over the years, but I wouldn’t do again.
Tanya Musgrave (29:54):
Sounds like a juicy, juicy story.
Ben Dann (29:59):
I did this job in North Carolina, which is just such a hot place for a kid who grew up in Wyoming. It was like a hundred percent humidity and brutally hot every day. And we were filming this TV show about this kid, this Instagram famous kid, who came home for summer with his friends. And it was just lifestylely Instagram, famous star show about. And it was just horrible. It got sold to me. It was like, “Yeah, we’re going to go North Carolina. We’re going to shoot race car drive and dirt biking, all this was.” I was like, “Sounds great. I’m in.” Again, this is early on in my career where I’m just saying yes to everything.
Tanya Musgrave (30:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Ben Dann (30:42):
And I get there and it was like, “Okay, this is hard work.” It was the first time that I had agency client, like video village.
Tanya Musgrave (30:51):
Oh, wow.
Ben Dann (30:52):
The first time I didn’t have a sound guy, like the whole nine yards. And it was a lot to take in and it was hot. And the talent was difficult to deal with. And they weren’t the athletes that I was expecting.
Tanya Musgrave (31:07):
Oh no.
Ben Dann (31:09):
It made me start to stop and ask some more questions before I just say to anything.
Tanya Musgrave (31:15):
Yeah, yeah. Have a little bit more of a process.
Ben Dann (31:18):
Totally.
Tanya Musgrave (31:21):
No, it’s always really interesting. Yeah. There’s always like the dream client that you would say yes to in a second. But I’m always curious like, all right, well, what would you say no to, and why? I mean, I remember there was somebody who they would hate it when they would walk onto a set and they would see I’m crafty, they would be like a moldy banana. There wouldn’t be any crafty or something like that. And they would say, no, that kind of a thing. And that would be really a huge indicator that they were not going to be taking care of on this set, that kind of a thing.
Ben Dann (31:55):
I mean, I usually get pretty excited when I find like an old mashed up granola bar in my backpack that I didn’t know was there. And there’ll be days in the field that I won’t bring food or water just because I don’t want carry it.
Tanya Musgrave (32:06):
What?
Ben Dann (32:09):
Your pack is already so heavy that like, you’re like, “Okay, I know how long this trip is going to be. I know it’s only six hours. I’ll just eat a bunch before I go and I’ll be fine.”
Tanya Musgrave (32:18):
And then it snows for two weeks.
Ben Dann (32:20):
Well, that’s a different kind. I’m for sure I’m going back to the truck tonight, otherwise I’m not going to make it.
Tanya Musgrave (32:27):
All right. All right. All right. All right. Okay. Well, I’m wanting to know a little bit more about the tools of your trade. What gear or gadget is an old reliable?
Ben Dann (32:42):
My personal camera is still a DSMC1 dragon, and RED DSMC1 Dragon. And it’s an amazing camera still. The sensor is the same as some of the sensors in the DSMC2 versions of the RED. And it’s just a workhorse. I find that a lot of the electrical connections and the workflow of how the camera works modularly, works slightly better in harsh, wet, snow conditions. And I’ve had it for quite a few years now, and it’s paid for itself over and over again. And it’s still is kicking. I still look at the image next to these new cameras and it’s still an amazing image, still hold its own.
Tanya Musgrave (33:25):
Yep. Yep.
Ben Dann (33:25):
And I mean, obviously I would love to make the move and upgrade to that new Raptor that just came out. But no, that’s been my old reliable for years.
Tanya Musgrave (33:36):
Nice.
Ben Dann (33:37):
When people ask, if you have a RED, it doesn’t really matter what kind of red you have, you got a RED.
Tanya Musgrave (33:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember shooting on the RED 1, that gigantic caterpillar of a camera. But man, no, they’re solid. What new favorite gadgets do you have that revolutionizes how you work?
Ben Dann (34:00):
So, like the last six months I’ve started working with these systems called, it’s called the GSS, Gyro-Stabilized Systems. In the last six months I got flown to California to their headquarters, got trained in their systems, and then did a couple projects over the last six months where I was the technician and the operator for them. And it is by far the coolest tool I’ve ever used in my life.
Tanya Musgrave (34:23):
Interesting.
Ben Dann (34:25):
I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but it’s similar concept, is like the Cineflex or the Shotover, but it’s like those big ball, Gibo cameras that have a RED, and then those big cinema lenses in them. So, to have a stabilized camera that you can mount to a helicopter or car, side by side, pretty much anything that moves with a 300 or a thousand lens in it, it’s such a crazy tool.
There was some merit to me being in the mechanical engineering program as a kid, because I’m a complete tech nerd. I love working on that system. I love all the parts and pieces, and the troubleshooting. And they do have issues sometimes and you have to be able to work quickly and figure out what’s wrong with them. And even the process of changing the lens is incredibly order of operations based. And quite a lot of work and quite a lot of pieces. And it’s an expensive piece of equipment. And you want to make sure you to it right. So, I remember my movement to using those systems more and more, has been really exciting for me. And I’m looking forward to operating and checking that system more in my future.
Tanya Musgrave (35:34):
Yeah. Yeah. You were talking about some of the quirks of it. From what I think, so David Allen Arnold, he was a previous guest who was the helicopter cameraman for Deadliest Catch.
Ben Dann (35:49):
Oh cool.
Tanya Musgrave (35:49):
And I’m pretty sure that he has like the Cineflex system within.
Ben Dann (35:53):
Yep.
Tanya Musgrave (35:53):
So, how would it differ from something like that? Is it just for helicopters or is it you can mount it onto anything, is what you were mentioning, right?
Ben Dann (36:03):
Yeah. Just like the Cineflex, you can mount it to all sort… I mean, it’s same size. The GSS, the company actually bought Cineflex.
Tanya Musgrave (36:10):
Oh, okay.
Ben Dann (36:11):
So, Cineflex was like the parent, it was like the first. And then people left Cineflex and started GSS and Shotover. One person in the US started GSS. And one person in New Zealand started Shotover.
Tanya Musgrave (36:20):
Oh, okay.
Ben Dann (36:21):
And then, since then GSS has acquired Cineflex.
Tanya Musgrave (36:21):
Oh, okay.
Ben Dann (36:25):
So, they’re all in the same ballpark of systems. The reason TGR has one is for mounting to the helicopter to shoot skiing in the back country in Alaska. And that’s like, it’s that tool, there’s nothing that parallels it. We can shoot drone. Every once in a while you can be like, “Oh, I don’t know if that was a GSS or a drone shot.” But if you’re using the GSS, the way it should be used, it is like unmistakably not a drone.
Tanya Musgrave (36:53):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Dann (36:54):
It is such an amazing tool. I mean, like any piece of camera gear, you have to fix stuff sometimes. And it’s just usually a little more stressful if there’s blades of the helicopter spinning.
Tanya Musgrave (37:06):
My gosh. Yeah. So, are you the guy in the back then with the controls, with the joystick and stuff like that?
Ben Dann (37:15):
Yeah. So, I got my technical training and I’ve only done a couple jobs since then. We did this big Wyoming tourism project, where we mounted to the roof of a truck and drove across the entire state over the course of three weeks.
Tanya Musgrave (37:28):
Wow.
Ben Dann (37:28):
And for that, I was the technician and the operator. So, I was the one behind the sticks operating for this commercial series. And then I went to Ecuador in the fall and was a technician, but then the director let me operate for one of the flights, which is really special. So, that was my first opportunity to operate in the air and not on a vehicle. It’s fairly new to me, but it’s something I’m really excited about and look looking forward to a future in it.
Tanya Musgrave (37:54):
Okay. I want to go back to that gnarly part. I want to know about a story where something went wrong.
Ben Dann (38:00):
Yeah. So, two years ago, we had a pretty serious incident in the mountains. It’s gotten quite a bit of media attention over the last couple of years. We were in the Pemberton area, filming for a TGR ski film. And Nick McNutt was skiing this pillow line above this frozen lake bed. Nick being the athlete that he is, ski is this beautiful line. And in the course of his line, he knocks off this big chunk of pillow, big frozen chunk of snow. And he falls into the gully. And he’s tumbling down this gully. And as he exits his line, he lands in that gully right as that snow and ice gets to him. And it swipes him off his feet and carries him through these standard trees and breaks his arm, and gets buried on that lake surface-
Tanya Musgrave (38:54):
Oh my God.
Ben Dann (38:55):
… with about like two meters of snow, which is a substantial amount of snow. And in that process of him getting swiped with the trees, his beacon got turned off.
Tanya Musgrave (39:08):
Oh no.
Ben Dann (39:09):
The avalanche beacons is like how we locate people buried in the snow. And that’s what we train for is using those beacons to locate them. Thank God, we had an incredible team in the mountains that day, as we had Ian Macintosh and Christina Lusti, who are not only professional skiers, but also mountain guides. Everyone sprung into action to make the rescue as swift as possible. Mac quickly figured out that there was no beacon signal, that we had to start probing for him to find Nick.
And I was flying the drone. So, I landed the drone, and then snowmobile over to the where the debris pile was. And then everyone pulled their probes out and were trying to figure out where he was. And right as we were about to be like, “Okay, let’s make a probe line.” Where everyone stands on a line and probes the snow. That is these long sticks that you stick into the snow and looking for a body.
I arrived at the toe of the debris pile, and right as Christina was trying to get us to start a probe line. I stuck my probe in the snow and grazed something. I was like, “Hold on one second.” And I stuck it, stuck it in one more time and was like, had a positive hit. So, within three probes of me arriving at the scene, I was able to get a positive hit on Nick. And then we just dug like hell and got him out of the snow. And if you watch Winterland is the film that I think it got showcased and two of the TGR films, I think it was.
Tanya Musgrave (40:34):
Yeah. I feel like there was at least a clip or something going around that I saw of this. I’m pretty sure that I saw this. That’s nuts.
Ben Dann (40:44):
Yeah. So, we dug him out. He had a broken arm. Luckily, it was a nice day. A helicopter was able to come in quickly and get him to hospital. And it took him about a year and a half to like… His arm was completely shattered. And it took him quite a while to recover from that, but he’s still with us, which is amazing. So, that was definitely the heaviest moment I’ve been in the mountains, for sure.
Tanya Musgrave (41:09):
Okay. Yeah, definitely.
Ben Dann (41:11):
Thanks to good training and quick thinking, we still got our friend with us, which is awesome.
Tanya Musgrave (41:18):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is not necessarily the same thing as like, “Oh yeah, somebody pulled our location.” Oh my gosh, that is absolute bonkers.
Ben Dann (41:32):
Yeah. When you’re working in the mountains, you’re holding a heavier deck of cards, for sure.
Tanya Musgrave (41:38):
Yeah. Insane. So, how about we jump from the thing that goes wrong to the thing goes right. We do have a listener question. You can ask your questions on Instagram at Practical Filmmaker. Favorite shoot and why?
Ben Dann (41:54):
My first ever mountain bike shoot was like proper bike shoot for a film was for Accomplice, which is still one of my most proudest pieces of work I’ve been a part of. And the first ever shoot of that trip ended up being my favorite segment in the film. And it was Graham Agassiz segment and Retallack. And Retallack is this little lodge on this little mountain pass in between Nelson, British Columbia, Kaslo, and the Silicon Valley. And it is absolute heaven on earth. It’s a catskiing operation in the summer. Sorry. It’s catskiing operation in the winter and a mountain biking destination in the summer.
And we got to go out there for 10 days with such a stellar crew, such an amazing athlete with some of the best bike trails I’ve ever seen in my life. And just the energy and the crew and the place, and the way it all came together, and the way the segment pulled together, I cherished that trip and that place more than most things. And it’s always in the back of my mind to figure out how I can get back there and film another segment there, or just go there on vacation because it’s a super, super special place.
Tanya Musgrave (43:06):
Our next listener question is recommendation for someone wanting to do what you do.
Ben Dann (43:13):
I think the biggest recommendation for getting into what I’m doing is have a love for the sports. It really takes quite a bit of experience and knowledge in the mountains and in the sports to even navigate the terrain that we’re working in. So, to have that background in the sports is super important. And just be a person that people want to spend time with, because you spend a lot of time together on these long extended trips and in remote places, and just having a personality that people want to have around, and that works hard, and is creative and motivated, and just brings something great to the table.
Tanya Musgrave (43:52):
And speaking of bringing something to the table, so we grazed over this too, about you being a part of a Red Bull shoot. You’re actually headed out like tomorrow. Yeah?
Ben Dann (44:05):
Kings and Queens of Corbet’s is like this big ski event that happens at Jackson Mountain Resort. So, last year, and this year, I’ll be like the head of the camera department on placing camera positions and making sure it looks the way we want it to look. And that starts tomorrow. So, we’ll go and prep cameras for this whole week. And then the following week is the window for the event. So, hopefully, we’ll get a nice weather window with good snow for the athletes to jump into Corbet’s.
Tanya Musgrave (44:31):
Nice. Nice. So, our last listener question is how would you suggest one gets their foot in the door with someone like Red Bull or big name clients?
Ben Dann (44:41):
It’s not that easy, unfortunately. I’ve worked with them and I don’t have a shoe in. And it just takes either being, or having an incredible library of work, or being trusted by the right people in the industry to do a good job. And those are, I feel like the two avenues.
Tanya Musgrave (45:07):
So, last question that I always ask every guest, what question should I have asked you?
Ben Dann (45:13):
I mean, I guess, I didn’t really talk about what my scope of work is.
Tanya Musgrave (45:16):
Yeah. All right.
Ben Dann (45:20):
What I do in the field in an average, what’s expected of me.
Tanya Musgrave (45:22):
Yeah. Maybe that was my fault.
Ben Dann (45:24):
I don’t know. Do you want the answer?
Tanya Musgrave (45:25):
Yes, absolutely.
Ben Dann (45:27):
Outside of my skill in the mountains, drone operator, FEV operator, GSS tech and operator, Phantom Tech operator.
Tanya Musgrave (45:36):
Wow.
Ben Dann (45:37):
To work in the mountains and to work in the action sports industry, you need to have a pretty deep bag of tricks. And luckily, I’ve had enough opportunities to fill that bag over time.
Tanya Musgrave (45:49):
With different certifications and that kind of stuff to boot as well.
Ben Dann (45:52):
For sure.
Tanya Musgrave (45:53):
How do people find you and follow your work? Shameless plug app.
Ben Dann (45:57):
A director I really admired told me a long time ago, I was like, “Man, I’ve really been working on getting my website and my reel up and running.” And he was like, “The only people who have websites and reels are people who are not busy enough. I was like, “Right. I’ll just keep busy then.”
Tanya Musgrave (46:18):
I mean, if you’re busy, I mean, can you complain? You’re doing something that you love and you’re keeping bread on your table. So, there’s not really much else you have to ask for.
Ben Dann (46:26):
Totally. So, I’ve somehow made it quite far into my career without having made a reel or a website. So, people who think that’s a hundred percent necessary to have any amount of success in this industry, aren’t totally true. I do wish I had one, but I just haven’t had the time or the motivation to put forth the effort.
I got social media account. I got myself on Instagram. TGR’s website, I’ve had a hand in most things on there in the last half decade.
Tanya Musgrave (46:54):
All right. And your Instagram was?
Ben Dann (46:57):
It’s Speed and Creative.
Tanya Musgrave (46:58):
Well, thank you so much for the insight and the incredible stories that came along with it.
Ben Dann (47:04):
Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.
Tanya Musgrave (47:06):
If you enjoyed this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram, ask us questions and check out more episodes at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well, and God bless. We’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.