Welp friends, this was an interesting week; David George from our Gear ‘n Gadgets had the idea to “turn the tables” and interview me!
Inevitably, as the podcast grows, more people who don’t actually know me personally will become listeners, so that’s what this is for. What’s my there to here story? And speaking of, this podcast used to be called There to Here—what happened? These questions and more, answered within. Enjoy!
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Tanya Musgrave (00:00):
There were tons of comments that was just like, “Disney come for her.” All this stuff. And somebody was telling me, “You need to lawyer up really quick.” I mean, it intimidated me enough to talk to an entertainment lawyer. And it was great because this job allowed me to have a lot of really good conversations not on my dime, but conversations with an entertainment lawyer asking him all of my questions.
David George (00:28):
Welcome to the Practical Filmmaker. An educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival, where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today. This week on the show, we’re turning the tables. You’re a normal host, Tanya Musgrave is our guest. In this episode, Tanya distills all of her previous guests’ advice into one short sentence, tells us how she uses the Discord app to produce a feature film, and shares the story behind why the podcast changed from There to Here to the Practical Filmmaker. Find the full transcripts and more at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. I’m David George, your guest host for today. Tanya, welcome to your show.
Tanya Musgrave (01:11):
This is super weird.
David George (01:17):
Thanks for being with us today.
Tanya Musgrave (01:19):
Thank you for the suggestion. I thought this was an interesting idea. I’m very intrigued and weirded out, but yet very excited. It’s going to be fun.
David George (01:32):
Well, of course, your voice is familiar to your listeners but your listeners may not know much about your journey. I know you usually start by asking your guests what their Here story is, how did they get here. But I’m not sure your listeners even totally now where Here is for you. Can we start by talking about what the scope of your professional focus is at this point?
Tanya Musgrave (01:59):
Wow. Right now, I am in the throes of producing a microbudget film. I’m here at my alma mater at Southern Adventist University. Their School of Visual Art and Design, they produce a microbudget feature every four years so that the students are able to be a part of a project of that magnitude. Sometimes they have alumni come back and fill some key positions. And they needed a producer and I’m also finishing up my master’s and I needed a capstone project. So yay, synergy.
David George (02:30):
Gotcha. So you used to be a full-time employee. But now you’re freelancing again so you’re a student and a freelancer. That’s the way you might be described professionally right now. Well, you’re also a podcaster. You’re doing these three things. And maybe I’m missing components of what you’re doing now. As a freelancer you’re producing right now, is that right?
Tanya Musgrave (03:00):
Yeah. It didn’t use to be something that I thought that I would want to do, honestly. When I was doing international docs and I was able to just hop around and shoot, and hand over my footage, it was fantastic. I was like, “This is all I ever want to do.” But once I started realizing that I didn’t necessarily have that passion of knowing all the tech stuff and knowing all this stuff, and I knew I was realistic enough with myself to know the limitations of where my passion and abilities intersected.
And I was way past or maybe fell short of where my passion was for that so I was just like, “Maybe something else. Maybe I will pursue just photography.” Got caught up with a full-time position that put me in a producer role and it set me up really well actually as a podcaster, too, because we started this podcast as they’re here. When I left that job, I was able to take on the podcast and make it my own and it was really great. But for right now, producing, it just kind of fell into this and I realized that I really like managing artists. I don’t know. The practical side of me came out, which probably why …
David George (03:00):
Practical filmmaker.
Tanya Musgrave (04:18):
I enjoy rubber meets the road kind of conversations, the brass tacks, where people can glean useful information.
David George (04:27):
Where did you first become interested in film? And can you give us the three-minute version of from then until now?
Tanya Musgrave (04:34):
I had always loved behind the scenes but I never really knew what that was.
David George (04:43):
Behind the scenes like you rented a DVD and it had special features on it?
Tanya Musgrave (04:47):
Yeah. I loved the behind the scenes stuff. I was like, “That is so cool.” But I was never part of anything in high school like the AV club or … I didn’t know how to edit. I don’t feel like until even way later, I’m just like, “How does this work? This is so cool.” I didn’t know that there was a film program here at the school. My mom will tell me differently. Because as in like a couple of nights ago, she said, “I mentioned this to you.” I literally do not remember this at all. But I didn’t know which direction I wanted to go. I was in the music department.
David George (05:19):
You come from the music. That was your entry point.
Tanya Musgrave (05:23):
Yeah. I wanted to record. I was in a digital audio production class, and there happened to be a film student there. He was just like, “Hey, we need a sound designer.” I think I was a token girl, because I was the only girl in that class. He’s like, “We don’t have a girl on our team. Do you want to be our sound designer?” I realized later that nobody in the film department likes doing sound. So I jumped into sound and I actually loved it. It just so happened that I got an email from you about being part of that particular summer’s feature, which was …
David George (06:01):
Right. Because I was producing a film at the time and we need … Same thing, same story, basically, we needed help with the sound side of things.
Tanya Musgrave (06:09):
So I came on as a foley artist. I was talking with the filmmakers involved with that. And I was just like, “I never did anything in high school. I don’t know anything about this. I would love to be part of this world but I don’t know anything about it.” He’s just like, “Duh. That’s why you come to school.” I didn’t know anything. And he was one of the seniors. It was Lesley. And he’s like, “You should just come.” I changed my major and that was it. From then on it, it’s just kind of been this on again, off again thing where I feel like I’ve been kind of done with it. Not done with it as in I hated it or anything. It was just like, I don’t know. I like photography. So I would flip back and forth between what would pay the bills. And did some international doc, was part of some really great projects, but ended up in a full-time job.
David George (06:56):
I know this story about approaching graduation for you. And the reason I think that’s important is because I think it ties in to the podcast. So you were over in the VM parking lot.
Tanya Musgrave (07:08):
Yeah. I realized very quickly, we were about a week out from graduation, and I was sitting there in the VM parking lot. I realized with glaring clarity that my cush RA job and my cush photo assistant … I was an instructor in the photo lab here, all of that was going away because I was graduating, and I had no way to make money, and I panicked. Just broke down. I had a full on breakdown in that parking lot. I called my mom, she met me on the first floor of [inaudible 00:07:49]. She was just like, “You know what? It’s going to be okay. You’re going to be okay. You’re not going to starve. You know that you can do this,” kind of thing. And I think that’s probably why I wanted to know, maybe that jumpstarted my foray into practicality, which is like, “Okay, I need to know how to pull myself up in bootstraps and fight to do this.”
David George (08:12):
So then you graduated, obviously. Then what?
Tanya Musgrave (08:18):
I went back home. I tried cold calling some of the studios and that was a disaster. Of course, you’re just like … Or maybe I was just scared. I think that was it, I didn’t know. I didn’t know which direction I was supposed to go. As awesome as film school was, there is the real world that you get met with. In any case, that was where I realized, too, that when you work hard at what’s in front of you, other people take notice. And many of the opportunities that were very big pivot points were calls out of nowhere, because somebody had referred me.
David George (08:57):
So they were out of nowhere to you, but not literally out of nowhere. You worked hard on the things that were put in front of you. What were some of those things?
Tanya Musgrave (09:07):
One of the first calls out of nowhere was to go up to the GC.
David George (09:11):
Depending on who’s listening to this, they may not know what the GC is. It’s a structural part of the organization of the church that you’re a part of. So you did some work at the GC.
Tanya Musgrave (09:21):
I was six months up there. That’s all I gave them because I thought that a full-time job was just the worst thing that could ever befall somebody.
David George (09:30):
When you’re 22 years old or whatever, six months seems like the rest of your life.
Tanya Musgrave (09:37):
It’s too long of a commitment. So while I was up there, I got a call from somebody who was just like, “Hey, I need a shooter. We go internationally. I would like you to start shooting with us.” That got me started in that type of world. While I was still living at home, I had had in the back of my mind, “You know what? I really do want to try out LA.” And I got a call there from Kevin Rockwell and he was just like, “Hey, I need a cinematographer for my docudrama and somebody to do the narrative sequences as well as come overseas to shoot the documentary side.” And I’m just like, “That’s my ticket to LA,” because we’re shooting out there.
David George (10:15):
Kevin is somebody you knew from school. So that’s a relationship that then extended on.
Tanya Musgrave (10:20):
Yeah. And then while I was out in California, I went to one of our film festivals here, Sunscreen. The one who’s sponsoring this podcast. Went to Sunscreen, and there happened to be a guy there with a media company, who’s representing a media company. I had done an interview about that docudrama and he came up to me afterwards, and he’s just like, “I think you need to work up with us.” And I’m just like, “I’m sorry, where are you based?” And he said, “Idaho.” I’m just like, “Take care. That’s great. Thank you but no, thank you.”
I called my mom, I was just like, “There’s nothing up in Idaho, absolutely nothing. It’s just fields.” And she’s like, “You hang up this phone right now and you look up the Sawtooth.” I mean, it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I was able to set myself up really well up there, pay off debt, get my first foray really into producing. It was a great place for me to start building some of those professional relationships and learn podcasting and all that.
David George (11:25):
So the move to LA was to shoot a project or the trip or a trip/move?
Tanya Musgrave (11:31):
Yeah, it was a trip/move. And I was just like, “I mean, this is the project they’re shooting out there. It’s going to have to be for a while, I might as well move.”
David George (11:38):
That’s actually really great. Because usually, it doesn’t happen that way for people. Usually you don’t get called out for something, usually you have to go out and then you’ll get involved in something. It happens both ways. But I think a lot of people are waiting for that project that will take them out there. That just never happens, right? But once you’re there, then you meet people and you’re around when people need things and things like that. It was a unique opportunity, in some ways, I think.
Tanya Musgrave (12:04):
I feel like it’s been a string of unique opportunities, which I think brings me back to that first point. Like when Aaron Adams, he was one of our professors here, I still remember, he was leaving to go animate for Disney. You know how every speaker says, “If there’s one thing that you remember today, I want you to remember this one thing.” This is the only thing that I’ve ever remembered when somebody says that. It was, “You do the best where you’re at and that’s it. You do the best where you’re at and God will bless,” kind of thing. It’s just like, “You focus on what’s in front of you and there you go.” If you are designing a postcard and that’s it, that’s the best postcard that you designed and people will take notice.
David George (12:46):
Okay. So you went to Idaho to do what?
Tanya Musgrave (12:49):
While I was in Idaho, the stability was pretty awesome. I was at a full-time position. They needed a creative director.
David George (12:57):
Okay. So you went to fill a creative director position.
Tanya Musgrave (12:59):
Yep. I say that this just doesn’t exist in the real world. But yet, the more that I talk to people, the more that there are these unique situations that exist out there where a guy wanted to make a production company, want to make a media company, and he had the funds for it and he said, “I just want to invest in good projects. I don’t care if it makes money back.” I had really, the golden opportunity of being able to play in a way. I found out that one of my passions was helping out other filmmakers who had the passion to make something else.
Because I never was the director that had a million ideas in their back pocket. We got done with our senior project and I had a blast directing it. But going around to the film festivals, they would always be like, “What’s your next project?” I’m like, “Look at this one in front of you. Is this not enough? I’ve got this one. Look.” But it never was a thing where I had 20 other ideas, and so I’m just like, “Men, these other people who do. I need something made, they want to make something. I can get them connected.” And that was that.
David George (14:02):
It wasn’t that you were brought there to direct a bunch of projects, it was that you were brought there to hunt for talent and to hunt for projects. So it was your job to see where money was deserved because you were put in charge in a way of this person’s funding that they had for this initiative. Is that right?
Tanya Musgrave (14:22):
Yeah. It was really great to see some of the projects come through and be in a position to say, “Hey, we can contribute to this project that you’re working on.” And learning some of the back roads, for instance, when I was doing photography, I did this photo manipulation of a Star Wars wedding. There were tons of comments that was just like, “Disney come for her and all this stuff.” And somebody was telling me, “You need to lawyer up really quick.” I don’t know.
Because things going viral, you can expect that there’s going to be a lot of offhanded comments about what-have-you. I mean, it intimidated me enough to talk to an entertainment lawyer. And it was great because this job allowed me to have a lot of really good conversations not on my dime, but conversations with an entertainment lawyer asking him all of my questions. It gave me the opportunity to talk to a lot of these people.
David George (15:29):
How long did that last and where did that lead?
Tanya Musgrave (15:32):
That lasted about three-and-a-half years, which is the longest that I’ve ever been in one spot, which is quite a milestone. Three-and-a-half years doesn’t seem … I don’t know. I feel like I haven’t necessarily bounced around a lot but when I think about it, and I guess, I have. Near the end when the pandemic hit and we had to pivot quite quickly. So one of the things that we did was we created educational events for filmmakers, for industry professionals, and bringing people together in a networking situation where we can learn, we can network, and all that fun stuff, and have a pitch competition. And I was able to produce that event. Loved it. After that happened, we are gearing up for the next annual event, and then COVID hit.
Of course, we did what everybody did and we started a podcast. Because we needed an outlet, number one, to get that educational content out. He wanted to do something so we’re like, “All right, let’s start a podcast.” And he’s like, “All right, you’re going to be the host.” And I’m just like, “I don’t want to be the host.” They just stuck me behind a mic and they’re like, “Well, you’re the host now.” I actually really liked it because regardless if anyone was listening, I was able to ask all of my questions.
I’m a very curious person by nature so it was great for me, because I could have this unrestricted access to these people. I can have an excuse to contact them, number one. Number two, people usually like talking about their journey to this point. And there’s a lot that can be learned from it. I don’t know, it was very practical for me and it was setting me up well. And it was really widening a network that I didn’t realize that I needed, that was an offshoot of it where I’m just like, “Oh my gosh, now I know that I can contact these people if I really needed to.” And some of them I have. Some of them who become mentors. It’s really great.
David George (17:38):
Right. So when they said you’re going to start a podcast and you’re the host, that was, in some ways, them saying, “You’re going to get an education from a bunch of great mentors and you’re going to expand your Rolodex to include all these people you never would have come into contact with otherwise.”
Tanya Musgrave (17:57):
Having those particular conversations with people, not being afraid to approach them anymore because of this, because of the podcast.
David George (18:06):
Right. So that podcast was called There to Here. And if you look on the places and listened to it, it’s still intros with There to Here and everything but now it’s the Practical Filmmaker. That seems like there’s a story there. And the listeners maybe had a 12-second update version of that, but what happened and how did you get to where you are in terms of the new name of the podcast and everything?
Tanya Musgrave (18:37):
My time there came to a close and I knew that … Well, I didn’t know. It was actually Michael. He was my coworker. He’s just like, “You know? I really think you have something with this podcast. People seem to resonate with it and I think you could do something really good here. It’s working.” When Michael said that we might have something, I was like, “Well, there might be a way that we can continue it.” So I called up Julio, and I was like, “You know what? Hey, I have this podcast.” He’s listened to some of it. And I was just like, “Hey, I don’t know if you are interested in doing a podcast.”
But he’s like, “Actually, you know what? Sunscreen, we wanted to start a podcast. So what we could do is just hop on yours, sponsor yours, and you can do it.” It’s like, “All right. I mean, that’s awesome.” At the same time, I contacted Stuart over at Filmmaker Institute, and I was just like, “Hey, do you guys have a need for a podcast?” And he was just like, “Actually, we were wanting to start a podcast. We can just hop on your train and help you sponsor it’s.” It’s allowed us to continue.
David George (19:46):
When the pandemic hit, you guys started a podcast. You were the host. It was CoLab’s podcast, you were the host. CoLab was trying to figure out what they wanted to do with the podcast as time moved on, and so they were changing the schedule and making it more often and less often and not happening at all. Then your time came to an end there and they didn’t want to do a podcast anymore and you weren’t there anymore. But there was this sense that, “Actually something of value was created there.” You connected all the dots to make it possible for the podcast to keep happening and then took it over. What used to be CoLab’s podcast is now your podcast. So it’s more of a personal thing now than it was.
Tanya Musgrave (20:39):
It was brought about a whole lot more real … And not that I didn’t try because I designed all that stuff, too. But I think for this one, like for instance, Michael said, “You need a headshot on your cover.” I’m just like, “No.” Because there’s a reason why I’m always behind the camera. I hate taking pictures. I mean, I love taking pictures but I hate being in front of the camera.
David George (21:03):
You don’t want a picture of you.
Tanya Musgrave (21:06):
No. I hated it. But it made it a whole lot more real that this was mine. Sink or swim, it’s going to be mine.
David George (21:14):
I alluded to earlier, there may be being a connection between your experience right after school and to this podcast. But one of the themes I’ve definitely seen in the show is that you’re making the podcast that you wish you had had when you were a student or shortly after graduating.
Tanya Musgrave (21:32):
You know what? The horrible part about it is I probably still wouldn’t have listened to it.
David George (21:41):
In some ways, I feel like the podcast that you’ve created during your time at CoLab was, in hindsight, preparing you for what was next.
Tanya Musgrave (21:54):
Absolutely.
David George (21:55):
I feel like freelancing is like these team building activities and stuff. They have people do the trust fall and things like that. I feel like being a freelancer is some version of that. But you don’t actually know that anybody’s going to catch you until it happens.
Tanya Musgrave (22:14):
It’s just constant free fall. I mean, you had the same journey, too, because you’re the second person that I interviewed. And I was like, “This is real interesting.” Because COVID had just happened. And a lot of how this stuff was born was just like, “Okay, film industry shut down. How are all the filmmakers handling it?” And I’m just like, “This is a really interesting one, because you decided to go freelance.” I mean, obviously, you had decided way before but it just so happened that you going freelance after being a professor happen to line up really well with the time when the whole entire industry shut down.
David George (22:55):
Almost perfectly, within a few weeks.
Tanya Musgrave (23:00):
So for an artist, it’s got to be the greatest freedom. To be able to be a freelancer and still earn enough to live. But seeing your journey, I’m just like, “Oh my gosh. He jumps and he’s got a family so maybe I’ll be okay.”
David George (23:19):
Well, I’m always nervous to encourage people to go freelance because I know it doesn’t go well for everybody but it also can work. I feel like people don’t always see that. They just see the fear side, and they see the horror stories side, and they see it not turning out. But that’s because you just don’t hear about the stories where it turns out as much. Well, I don’t know. I think you don’t get the middle. You get extreme success or you get super failure, but people just live a freelance lifestyle and are successful with it also.
Tanya Musgrave (23:56):
Okay. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the Guardian, but there’s Coast Guard …
David George (24:02):
Kevin Costner and Ashton Kutcher, yes. Think I’ve seen it.
Tanya Musgrave (24:05):
Kevin Costner, he was giving him advice, talking about his endurance and stuff like that. And said, “You swim as hard as you can and as fast as you can for as long as you can and the sea takes a rest,” kind of thing. Where I found out I was losing my job. Literally seven minutes later, I sat on my couch and I was like, “Holy crap, what am I going to do?” Seven minutes later, I was on the phone with three other people asking about their jobs. Yes, stuff just does happen but I did realize this time around just how much you can do to make that happen.
David George (24:47):
You said seven minutes later, you were on the phone with other people doing …
Tanya Musgrave (24:53):
Asking about jobs.
David George (24:54):
So you were calling?
Tanya Musgrave (24:55):
No, I was calling.
David George (24:58):
You had you gave yourself seven minutes to process and then you jumped into action.
Tanya Musgrave (25:02):
Yeah. I realized that this was going to be ending and I didn’t know any of the details of what that would look like yet, how long that I had. But I was immediately on the phone with people who are just like, “Hey, you know what? We were going to do this event together. We’ll contract with you. You come produce for us.” And I was just like, “Absolutely. Done.” That took care of the first little bit.
David George (25:33):
Well, good for you. You’ve been doing this podcast for a little over a year now. What do you think the most important thing that you’ve learned from your guests has been or from one of your guests? Is there some sort of thing that stands out as like, “That was really great advice”?
Tanya Musgrave (25:50):
I guess, if there was anything that I learned is that the people are a whole lot more accessible than you think. There’s this weird reputation that I guess filmmakers have gotten for not helping people. But at least in this sense, that’s the opposite of what I’ve found. Most people are willing to help you out, especially if you’re willing to learn.
David George (26:17):
People are more accessible than you think and people are more willing to help than you think. If there’s an asterisk to that at all, it’s that the context of your introduction helps. If they really don’t know you from anywhere and you don’t approach well, you might not get your foot in that door. But it seems like, by and large, you can. It’s just not that hard.
Tanya Musgrave (26:43):
Seriously, if you want to network, start a podcast. I’m serious. I think some of the walkaway ones that I can think of were … There were at least eye-opening or any of the ones having to do with distribution or agents, because I’d never talked to anybody in distribution or any kind of agent before, and I didn’t know how it worked. So regardless, if I had any kind of listener question, I didn’t forge that on my own.
David George (27:16):
Right. I think that it’s an interesting thing. I taught for a long time and one of the … I read a book a while ago that talked about the curse of knowledge and how when you have known something for a long time, it’s hard to imagine the mindset of somebody that doesn’t know that same thing that you know. And it’s called the curse of knowledge. I think all teachers are afflicted with it to some degree.
I’ve listened to all of your podcasts and one of the things that I think is interesting about you as a host is that you know enough to ask intelligent questions but you don’t know everything. You’re able to ask the questions that your audience probably has. You ask those questions that I think the audience needs asked on their behalf. Okay, so I have my next question, which is related to the last one, if you could distill the advice of all your guests into a few short sentences, what would it be?
Tanya Musgrave (28:21):
Honestly, what it seems to be is that it really is simple. You just have to do it, you have to work hard, you have to be nice about it. But for the people who are saying it’s so hard to break into the industry, it’s really kind of simple. You have to put yourself out there to do it and make those relationships. People aren’t going to work with you if they don’t like working with you. I say a lot in my podcast about balance because balance is important to me. But psychology fascinates me, too.
To have a level of self-awareness where you’re just like, “People aren’t calling me. Let’s figure out why.” And if that is something that you have to work out from your childhood or whatever, I mean, for your own life’s sake, do it. Figure out why, have some self-awareness and see … If it really is that simple to just work hard and be nice, then why isn’t that happening for you? That kind of thing. And I guess, my own aside to that would be do whatever it takes to figure out why either of those aren’t working for you.
David George (29:41):
So if I were to summarize what you’re saying, you’re saying that you just put yourself out there, work hard, do your best at what you’re trying to do, and be likable? Is that what you’re saying? Do you think it’s that simple?
Tanya Musgrave (29:57):
I’d like to believe it is.
David George (30:00):
Is there an asterisk next to that? If you were to summarize the whole advice that you’ve gotten for newcomers from your podcast guests, is it really as simple as that?
Tanya Musgrave (30:17):
So the old timers who I’ve interviewed have made it that simple. The ones who have been in the industry for 20, 30 years have made it that simple because I don’t know. Maybe it’s like having a baby and you forget all the hard work that you went through.
David George (30:36):
That’s possible.
Tanya Musgrave (30:39):
But for them, what I heard repeatedly was that they put themselves in a position that made people around them, made it impossible for those around them to forget them. David Alan Arnold showed up every single day at a place that did not ask for his presence with coffee and bagels and what-have-you, cleaned up their shop, and the guy said, “You’re going on my next flight.” That was it for him. Look at him now. But it’s the same thing where if somebody is pestering you for a job, the first thing that they’re going to think of is like, “Well, you remember that annoying kid?” “Well, hey, actually that annoying kid, he works pretty hard. Let’s put them doing something even if it’s like a nothing thing.” And that’s you’re in. I mean, for the most part, a lot of what they said was, “I showed up, I sent out 100 resumes, I got one back.” “I called 100 people in the phone book and I got one call back.” That’s a recurring thing, [crosstalk 00:31:47] the rest.
David George (31:46):
So here’s something that … Nice. You’ve made your case. So here’s something that always nags at the back of my mind is if you’re not talking to the people that didn’t make it, how do you know that they didn’t do all the same things?
Tanya Musgrave (32:09):
Well, actually, I have talked to some. I have. You know what?
David George (32:16):
They didn’t make it on the podcast though.
Tanya Musgrave (32:18):
Well, because they figured out a different path for themselves that they liked better. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. Because for some who wanted a different balance or that it just wasn’t for them, they found their thing.
David George (32:30):
They found another way to be successful doing something else.
Tanya Musgrave (32:36):
Yeah. And if that success is earning a living that they feel comfortable with … I’ve seen them go into nursing, I’ve seen them go into counseling, I’ve seen them go into fields where it can allow the lifestyle that they want. I mean, sinkers are going to sink, it doesn’t matter which field that you’re in. So you’re either going to take care of yourself and be an asset to society or you’re going to be the dead weight that we drag along with us or just get left behind. Everybody has to take the responsibility of their own life. So honestly, if the ones who didn’t make it, I mean, it’s because they may have wanted something else at the same time. There is a debate in their head, they need to listen to one.
David George (33:33):
Tell me a story of something you learned the hard way.
Tanya Musgrave (33:37):
I had this unicorn lens. It was not unicorn lens. I had this lens, we’ll just call it Eleanor, for all of the Gone in 60 Seconds fans. Something happened to this lens. It got dropped four times and every single time, it was not my fault. The very first time that it happened, a student was moving my bag and of course, that fantastic sound that you hear of expensive equipment on concrete.
David George (34:09):
So the bag wasn’t closed or something?
Tanya Musgrave (34:12):
Nope, and that was my fault. Maybe that’s the real lesson. Close your crap. So that was mistake number one. Mistake number two, I called the insurance agency. They’re just like, “That’s fine. This is great. We’ll get it. You won’t ever need to pay really more than $300 to repair a lens.” But I didn’t realize that in the long run, it would have been cheaper for me to just repair the lens myself because, again, you won’t really take more than $300. This is photography lenses. This isn’t cinema lenses so I don’t know in that respect. But I had insurance on it, I took out the claim.
Realized later when I moved states, they’re just like, “Hey, so you have a couple of hits on this.” And I’m just like, “Wait, what?” And she’s like, “It’s connected to your social security number.” So any insurance company can look that up and say, “You have these two or whatever claims from times that it wasn’t even your fault.” Then I had insurance premiums that were higher that I was stuck with. That if it happened again, I just, that last time, the last two times, actually, I had them just replace the lens or pay for the repairs so it didn’t reflect on my insurance. I mean, if it was my fault and I got all my gear stolen or something like that, then I would consider it but insurance, that’s the thing.
David George (35:54):
Ensure your stuff but try not to make claims unless you really have to because there may be other ways that it comes back to bite you later. Has doing this podcast changed your life at all?
Tanya Musgrave (36:10):
Yes, it has.
David George (36:13):
How would you say that it has changed it?
Tanya Musgrave (36:17):
For the third or fourth time in my life, I was thinking, “Well, man, I guess I’m just going to have to not do film anymore. I don’t know.” It kind of dove me back into that world. It doesn’t take much for me to be interested in somebody else’s life. Maybe that sounds creepy. For instance, I like being genuinely interested in everyone and what they’re doing.
David George (36:42):
Careers are interesting.
Tanya Musgrave (36:43):
They are. Yeah. And people’s, “Why,” I think one of my favorite segments of the show is, now, with the Practical Filmmaker was one of your ideas, which was, “Hey, I want to ask about people’s new gear and old gear.” And I’m just like, “Oh my gosh, that is so nuts and bolts. That’s amazing.” And I love asking them about that stuff because they’re all of the philosophical stuff, how they got from there to here, whatever, gets dropped, and we start talking about what’s actually in front of us. “I work with this and I work with that. What price range is that and what are its quirks?”
David George (37:26):
It is almost as though we plan to the segue. But the next question that I have for you is what are some of the tools that you use to help get your job done? Whether that’s you’re producing now or you’ve been podcasting for a while, what’s something new that’s changing the way that you work?
Tanya Musgrave (37:47):
Well, for podcasting, I remember Headliner being a thing at the very beginning. Where being able to make videos very quickly with waveforms and it will auto generate sometimes awful captions that you have to correct. But for what it does for the price, that was pretty cool to find out. Because I had no idea how they did this. If you wanted to make one that had like that karaoke where it lit up the words, I searched forever to try to find that and it bothered the crap out of me that I can’t find it anywhere [inaudible 00:38:21].
David George (38:21):
Is it fair to say that Headliner is a tool that helps you make Instagram stories type of content?
Tanya Musgrave (38:28):
It’s for Instagram. It’s the easily digestible 30 seconds. We tried it out at the very beginning and it was way too long of a segment for it to be practical. And he’s like, “All right, people are not going to want to watch this.” But that was really cool.
David George (38:44):
Does it have any quirks?
Tanya Musgrave (38:46):
Yeah, it does. It works within a browser. So some of the stuff that you put in, like for instance, uploading a video, it has different tracks. It’s almost as if somebody designed it who was not necessarily a filmmaker. So some of it is just like, “All right, this is not as intuitive as it could be.” One thing that we’re using a lot on this particular shoot is Discord. But we are shooting an actual feature film and we have all of the departments on the channel.
David George (39:21):
So what is Discord?
Tanya Musgrave (39:23):
Discord is an app where I think it started with gamers, and it was a way for everybody to … It’s a lot like Slack. The one quirk of Discord that I wish it had that Slack has is an ability to reply on its own thread. But it is really, really nice to have art department on a thread and wardrobe and G&E and producers unit and all of that stuff through the same app. Instead of bringing up everybody’s name and a text and it kind of gets lost, it can be centralized to … Like if I have a Discord message, it has to do with this film.
David George (40:12):
Is there an old favorite, an old standby that helps you get your job done?
Tanya Musgrave (40:17):
I am not much of a gearhead actually. That’s why it’s interesting for me to hear about other people’s gear is because I usually get something and stick with it. I’m still shooting on a Mark III. If there’s something that I really like, it’s just [crosstalk 00:40:33]
David George (40:32):
You have Canon 5D Mark III?
Tanya Musgrave (40:34):
Yeah. I mean, I usually get something and if it works, I stick with it until it dies.
David George (40:41):
I think we’re to the point when I ask you what questions I should have asked you.
Tanya Musgrave (40:44):
If you could tell your audience something, what would you tell them? I would tell them that accessibility that I have, you have to because I ask every single episode who has listener questions. And you’d be surprised because I ask every single one of them. And you’d be surprised how hard it is sometime to wrench questions out of people. I’m just like, “This source is right in front of you. Why are you not asking what you want to ask?” If I could tell them one thing, it would be, “Ask your questions.” DM me, I don’t care. If you have my number, text me. Email me, tanya@thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Email me your questions. We post up on Instagram before I interview. I usually post it up in stories. Like who I’m interviewing next and I asked for listener questions.
David George (41:46):
Shameless plug time, where can we find you online?
Tanya Musgrave (41:50):
They’re going to be tired of hearing this because it’s so many times that I say thepracticalfilmmaker.com. tanya@thepracticalfilmmaker.com.
David George (41:59):
Instagram or anything else?
Tanya Musgrave (42:01):
Instagram, TK Musgrave, and The Practical Filmmaker. Actually, no. Oh my gosh, this is horrible. @practicalfilmmaker.
David George (42:10):
Okay. This is usually where we end it but I do have one more question. What’s on the horizon for you? In three years, where do you hope your career is? Will Practical Filmmaker still be part of that? Will you be producing? Will you be enjoying a renaissance of photography in your life? I know that maybe it’s contrary to the advice of, “Do your best with the thing that’s in front of you.” But if you could choose what’s in front of you, what would that be?
Tanya Musgrave (42:39):
I think the podcast would still be a part of it because there’s still a lot of learning to do, there’s still a lot more people to talk to. I don’t know, I haven’t lost interest in that yet. As far as producing, I figured out that I really like it. I mean, this one right here, this is my first feature. I am really looking forward to learning even if it’s just people management.
David George (43:06):
That’s essentially what producing is. As an observer and sort of collaborator with you on the things that you’re doing, it seems like you’re moving into a space where you are a connector, you’re becoming sort of a hub out from which spokes radiate in different directions. You excel when you’re connecting with people. You’re making all these things come together. Years ago, I don’t know that I would have predicted that per se, but it’s totally congruent with who you are as a person and what fascinates you and all of that.
Tanya Musgrave (43:44):
Being a connector part is a big passion of mine. Once I realized that these two people are headed in the same direction and they need each other but they don’t know each other, it’s a very simple decision for me. I love connecting people.
David George (43:59):
Well, Tanya, thank you for giving me the opportunity to turn the tables on you today.
Tanya Musgrave (44:06):
Thank you for the idea.
David George (44:07):
If you enjoyed this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram. And check out more episodes at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. If you have comments or know someone who would be a great guest on our show, someone other than Tanya Musgrave, send in your suggestions to tanya@thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well and God bless. We’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.