If you give your art department the time and resources they need, they can turn a flat set into a dynamic space that will transport your audience into the world you’re trying to convey.
This week Clifton Chandler, Production Designer, shares his experience from working in the art department and what resources producers need to provide to make their sets look amazing. In this episode, he talks about the must have basics, how to stay organized, and how to hire for the art department.
Watch now to learn how to better work with your production designer.
Key points:
3:01 – Getting started in the art department
5:00 – Take-aways after first project
10:08 – How to stay organized
12:05 – What to look for when hiring the art department
14:55 – Day rates for art department
18:31 – What if director doesn’t like your work
29:33 – Favorite gear
32:23 – Something going wrong
37:35 – Why the art department
Links
Transcript
Clifton Chandler: (00:00)
It was one of those things where the communication wasn’t there. And then I got blamed for having my prop person make it the wrong way, even though the script said it this way. I took it so personally I’ve never been angry on set except this one time. And I put my hand through a panel that I had made just out of sheer I had no more emotional energy and it just needed to go somewhere. And then I just burst into tears. That was probably the lowest I’ve ever been on set.
Tanya Musgrave: (00:36)
Welcome to the Practical Filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival, where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today. Find the full transcripts and more at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. On today’s show production designer, Clifton Chandler chats about his processes for working art department for indie films, music videos, and commercials. I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave. And today we get to talk art department. Clifton Chandler, a production designer, illustrator, and world creator for both indie and commercial projects in television, film, and music videos, welcome to the show.
Clifton Chandler: (01:11)
Thank you. I’m excited to be here.
Tanya Musgrave: (01:13)
I’m so stoked. Okay. First of all, we go back a ways. Yeah. Now that I’m trying to think about it, I don’t know how, five, five years?
Clifton Chandler: (01:23)
No, more than that.
Tanya Musgrave: (01:24)
No, it’s more than that. Oh, my stars.
Clifton Chandler: (01:25)
It’s more than that. It’s seven.
Tanya Musgrave: (01:28)
Yeah. They say the people who are friends for seven years.
Clifton Chandler: (01:31)
I know. I was just going to say that.
Tanya Musgrave: (01:32)
Two peas in a pod.
Clifton Chandler: (01:35)
Exactly. Already starting good.
Tanya Musgrave: (01:40)
Okay. We got together on one of the projects. I was shooting some production stills and you were doing an insane job with the props of a friend’s proof of concept.
Clifton Chandler: (01:52)
Yeah. It was quite the project. I was well actually technically living in Portland at the time and the project was in California, but I was so excited about the project that I actually drove 17 hours-
Tanya Musgrave: (02:09)
Oh my gosh. I didn’t know that.
Clifton Chandler: (02:10)
… To set and slept on a couch for 10 days to be a part of it.
Tanya Musgrave: (02:16)
Yes. Man, but those are the projects that you absolutely love being a part of. Something that you get to be passionate about. It’s unmatchable being able to have your creativity validated in a way where you’re just like, oh, I know that I’m creating something good and they appreciate it and they’re showcasing it well.
Clifton Chandler: (02:38)
I believe actually, even one of the candles, that candle right there, is actually from that production. That was one of the things I kept from the production.
Tanya Musgrave: (02:49)
Yes. You better have kept everything because everything was awesome.
Clifton Chandler: (02:52)
Well thank you.
Tanya Musgrave: (02:54)
I just love art department. Magic happens there and it’s so much fun. How did you get into this?
Clifton Chandler: (03:02)
Yeah, so I actually fell into it by accident. My dad loved old movies. We watched a lot of Star Trek, a lot of Jim Henson. My favorite movie growing up was Lady Hawk and The Last Unicorn. But it was one of those things where I grew up around watching film, but we were in Bush, Alaska, so a lot of things didn’t happen until 10 years later. We didn’t get fads or trends until later on. And so it wasn’t until I was in my late 20s that I actually had an opportunity to be on set and it was a friend and she was doing a music video. And what ended up happening is I love art. I said, “Hey, I’d love to help.” And I dressed out a cubicle to look like it was lived in and the director was like, “You should be doing this on a regular basis.” And I was like, “Nah, I’m good.” But when I moved down to-
Tanya Musgrave: (03:53)
While your soul is soaring, of course, you’re saying, “No, I’m good.”
Clifton Chandler: (03:57)
Exactly. Oh I can be Jim Henson someday? When I came to Portland, I had an opportunity again, to be on a web series. It was $50 for 18 days of work and whatnot. But I fell in love with the process. And from there I was invited to be on a commercial. And then I got introduced to some more film people. And in about five years, I was working from an arch PA person to doing actual production design work. Now I have seven features under my belt and probably 12 or so music videos, a smattering of commercials.
Tanya Musgrave: (04:33)
Ah, that’s so cool. Okay. All right. When you say seven features, I’ve only had the privilege of producing one so far. And I feel like, of course, you get done with one and then you’re actually ready to make a feature. You’re like, okay, well now I know what I need, so let’s do it again. Yeah? I’m actually curious what are some of those takeaways where you’re just like, okay, next time, this is never happening. Or next time, this is definitely happening.
Clifton Chandler: (05:05)
It’s funny, and this might be different for other people, but I honestly think my takeaways are, it doesn’t matter how much money you get paid. It doesn’t matter how much the budget is. It doesn’t even matter how big the crew is, but if you have a director and a producer and a team that doesn’t believe in you or doesn’t have a good vibe, a good connection, it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at it, it’s not going to come out well. For me, I look for people who have good vibe. If their vibe jives with me, then I’m more willing to do stuff for less. And to really put that 210% in. And if I’m working on a commercial, great, I’ll do my 100%. I’m not going to skimp on the actual work. But when you have a very good, tight, close team, that is when magic really happens.
Tanya Musgrave: (06:08)
Yeah. Seriously. It’s really hard to get on any set because it’s basically a family and I get it. When you find the people that you vibe well with, it’s really hard to branch out and just be like, I don’t know. Who is this person? What are they going to bring to the table? I don’t know. And obviously, there’s a fun factor to it, having fun. I don’t know if it’s just an artist thing, but I think enjoying yourself is a big deal for artists because it’s very closely tied to the artistic process, I think.
Clifton Chandler: (06:41)
And to your soul. And this is me getting like, woo, woo, but I got a bunch of candles around me. You do leave a little bit of your soul on every set. For me, it’s tying into something more than just a bottle. There’s more to it than just having a couple candles. It’s a part of your soul.
Tanya Musgrave: (07:05)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was having a good vibe, that’s one takeaway. For a practical sense of these are the things that I would have with me, these particular things. I would make sure that this was in place or that I would bring this. What are some of those takeaways?
Clifton Chandler: (07:24)
I have a Mary Poppin’s bag. It is where I keep everything from a hammer, wrench, scissors, nail clippers. Every set, if you don’t have a pair of nail Clippers, you’re not doing it right.
Tanya Musgrave: (07:38)
Interesting.
Clifton Chandler: (07:40)
I’ll shout out to 3M strips because I love 3M strips. They’re great for hanging those random pictures or putting in something on the wall that can’t be damaging to whatever set we’re on. I tend to have a dinosaur with me on set just because it’s-
Tanya Musgrave: (07:57)
A what?
Clifton Chandler: (07:59)
It’s just token of, Hey, we’re still having fun, right?
Tanya Musgrave: (08:02)
Oh, oh, oh, oh. I’m just-
Clifton Chandler: (08:04)
A little dinosaur. Sometimes I’ll even bring a D 20 onset.
Tanya Musgrave: (08:09)
Oh my gosh.
Clifton Chandler: (08:09)
Just to be around. Just to have. Just to give that, okay. Yeah. There’s some grounding here. I guess it’s an inception thing or something. I don’t know.
Tanya Musgrave: (08:18)
You have your token.
Clifton Chandler: (08:19)
Yeah, exactly. I always come to set knowing that the job has to get done. Things do have to get done. There is a job and you need to be serious about it, but I also tend towards the once that’s done or during those times when you can, be goofy, embrace the chaos. It is okay to be a little weird. Every once in a while I’ll just start flapping my wings on set. Every set. It just allows your body to get out of the space that you’re in and all that stress and stuff that builds up. That’s what I do. Every couple hours, I’ll just start flapping my wings.
Tanya Musgrave: (09:03)
That is incredible. Oh my gosh. Well, this is why we want you on our next set. Seriously. But if I look over into the corner and Clifton’s just… All right everybody stop. We’re all doing this. Sometimes those sets be like that. You have to.
Clifton Chandler: (09:22)
Well, and you’re holding onto all your jobs and you’re like, this has to get done. And there’s all this stress about having to organize the chaos. And sometimes you just have to let that go.
Tanya Musgrave: (09:36)
When you organize the chaos, what does that look like for you?
Clifton Chandler: (09:39)
A lot of Ikea bags.
Tanya Musgrave: (09:43)
Yeah. Okay. We did art for this last, it was the children’s game show and we had the shelving system that people were always putting their other crap on it. I’m just like, this stinger does not belong here. This doesn’t belong here. I remember another set that I was on, where had art had a whole entire room and organization is key, obviously.
Clifton Chandler: (10:07)
Absolutely.
Tanya Musgrave: (10:07)
But what’s been your go to system? Ikea bags, is it like per scene? Is it-
Clifton Chandler: (10:16)
Usually for me-
Tanya Musgrave: (10:17)
… For type?
Clifton Chandler: (10:18)
I almost always bring my own table because what ends up happening is production may have a table. They might have a spot for art, but usually they don’t have a spot for art. It’s usually like, oh, this is where the grip is going. This is where this is going. This is the green room for the actors. I usually don’t have a truck. It’s usually very small budgets. It’s my vehicle and it is usually transported in Ikea bags. And I either organize it according to the scene or organize it according to the space that I’m going to be occupying or what that thing is going to occupy.
(10:57)
And then within that, if it’s breakable, then it gets covered and protected and whatnot. Totes and Ikea bags, usually not labeled because I’m the only one usually touching it. And if there is an assistant or somebody there filled in, when we get there, this goes here, that goes there. But the table, I always label it “this is art department only.” This is my space. I claimed it. I brought it. This is me. And that always allows me to have the top surface and also storage underneath. That’s normally how I come into. I’m always Mary Poppins bag, props, and a table.
Tanya Musgrave: (11:42)
You said something that resonated. I started out in sound and I remember that it was constantly looked over and you said something that alluded to the fact that art department is very often looked over, both in staffing and in space. And when it comes to the staffing too, I never know what would be helpful or detrimental because to have somebody else in your space, that’s just like, blah. What would you say to a producer who is trying to find somebody to either be of help or is hiring art department people? Here’s what you look for. Here’s where you look for it.
Clifton Chandler: (12:25)
You are correct. Art department ends up being overlooked a lot of times, but even if it’s not overlooked and say, I do get hired, a lot of times the producers or director or someone who’s doing the above line stuff already has that friend who is an art person who likes to draw or the makeup artist that they have already known, or they asked their hair stylist if they would do it for free, that can really put a monkey wrench in the actual flow of a production. I think one of the biggest things that maybe a producer or director should really key in on is camera department usually hires their people.
(13:09)
They hire the people underneath them. They hire the assistant camera. They hire people that they trust. And it’s the same thing with art department. I have a list of people that I call when I need an assistant, because I know and I trust that when I ask them, Hey, can you set that table, they know that according to the Vanderbilt book of etiquette, this is how you dress a table, that there is the same jargon are being used, that they know not to move certain things. And it always seems to be, or very often seems to be, something that a producer doesn’t realize when they’re hiring.
Tanya Musgrave: (13:50)
Yeah. You had mentioned before I have this table because I didn’t have a truck. We had a lady on our Gearing Gadget segment a while back who actually had her own box truck and that was her makeshift studio where she could haul stuff, furniture and fix stuff. And I’m guessing the use of that truck is an addendum or is it a la carte?
Clifton Chandler: (14:12)
I would love to have an art truck at some point. That would be amazing for myself, but then I would have to make sure my partner is okay with me parking it in the driveway. But it’s one of those things where I think that’s something that they still have to bill. You still bill that. There’s wear and tear on the vehicle and there’s transportation costs and whatnot. I usually end up forgo that. And I either just ask for gas receipts. This is how much it cost to transport the gear and all that if they’re not providing a truck.
Tanya Musgrave: (14:44)
All right. Speaking of billing, I am curious what somebody who is entering this field could be expected to get for pay. Is this a day rate or a weekly rate? That kind of a thing.
Clifton Chandler: (14:58)
Again, I might be a little strange in that I hop the independent film train, so a lot of projects-
Tanya Musgrave: (15:07)
Commercial. Yeah.
Clifton Chandler: (15:08)
And then jump in commercials every once in a while. I have two worlds that I really focus on. In independent film, especially here in Portland area, it can range when I was first starting out $50 was great a day. That was my, oh yeah. Okay, cool. I’m here. I’m learning all that kind of stuff. 150 I think is reasonable for a PA. Somebody that’s starting out in any department, for me, 150 is probably your baseline. You wouldn’t want to get much less than that. I still make, even as a production designer on the smaller stuff, I still make between 250 and 500 a day. That’s not that much. It does allow me, especially with those projects, like I said, I’m very picky about the vibes that I get. If I have vibes that I’m not jiving with the crew, I’ll probably not pick that film. But when I’m jiving well, 250, 300, it’s a pretty decent amount or flat rates. A lot of times they’ll save money and I’ll feel like I’m getting a big enough chunk that I can decide when I work for them.
Tanya Musgrave: (16:15)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for commercial?
Clifton Chandler: (16:17)
For commercial, yeah. Low end for me is 700 now. It’s usually a day rate. On set is 700 and then it either fluctuates between four to five for prep days and wrap days.
Tanya Musgrave: (16:30)
That’s what I was going to ask about next. Because prep can be very ambiguous. Just be like, well I’m going to be working on this one piece or Hey, is this conversation about it, is that counting as hours or time or hourly rate always gets super, eh.
Clifton Chandler: (16:49)
It can be a little ambiguous at times. I’m just very clear with them. Usually I’ll say-
Tanya Musgrave: (16:54)
Clarity, that’s amazing.
Clifton Chandler: (16:55)
I’ll say, okay, this is about three days worth of work, even though I’m doing it three weeks before. I’ll say, “I’ll need three days of work pre-prep or pre-pro and then I’ll do a two days of wrap afterwards.” And that can fluctuate depending on the project and how detailed it is.
Tanya Musgrave: (17:14)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. How do things work on set then? How many people would you typically need or is one person?
Clifton Chandler: (17:24)
I would love to have at least two. One person who acts more like the art director, someone who can actually make sure things are getting done with the specifications that I have. And then someone that actually assists in doing that practically. A lot of times it’s either just myself or it’s me and a PA. Sometimes I’m really lucky to be able to hire people who I’ve hired before or have had experience with art department on film. And then it’s really easy. It flows really well and we can move furniture and do those types of things. Commercials it’s usually just me and sometimes those are fun and sometimes it’s a lot funner when you have two people and you’re like, okay, now move that couch over there. Let’s do this. My little diva comes out.
Tanya Musgrave: (18:18)
Good to know. Logging that away for when I ask you to hire me for your assistant one day.
Clifton Chandler: (18:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave: (18:26)
But what if you work on something even for a while. Say you work on this particular piece for a while and the director doesn’t necessarily like what you did and you have to put more hours into fixing stuff or hours and materials that you weren’t necessarily expecting. Because in illustration, have two rounds of revisions. There’s that kind of a thing. What is there in terms of art department?
Clifton Chandler: (18:53)
Pre-production is really important when it comes to set schedules. One of the things that I’ve had to actually teach myself first and then other people is to talk to your art director or your production designer, about how much time it’s going to take to actually set the scene. Because a lot of times what will end up happening is, oh, they gave us half an hour and it literally is redressing an entire room. That’s not going to happen in half an hour when you have lighting and urban electric in there trying to do their job. There’s a lot of moving parts and you can’t just automatically put a pillow on a couch and call it art. It just doesn’t work that way.
(19:37)
Commercials are pretty set. They have their schedule and you know what to expect. But a lot of times the independent shows can get a little weird. It’s like, hurry up. We need this on set. And it’s like, well, you gave your gaffer enough time to set up lights, but you didn’t put in enough time for us to actually make and do our job correctly. There’s been some interesting conversations after the fact, I tend to be very professional on set and then cry in the closet later.
Tanya Musgrave: (20:10)
Oh no. No, no, no.
Clifton Chandler: (20:15)
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave: (20:15)
I think that is probably one of the most enjoyable things as a producer. Not making people cry.
Clifton Chandler: (20:20)
No. Yeah. Oh, okay.
Tanya Musgrave: (20:25)
No, it’s figuring out the needs of people and trying to make every… That sounds so horrible is make everybody happy, but I think, man, I get chills sometimes when I see people who are really passionate about one certain direction, and I know that this other person over here has that same passion in that direction and just being like, Hey, Hey, you guys. Here just. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. You’re seeing that happen and they’re happy. They’re happy over here. You’re happy. It’s just like, Hey.
Clifton Chandler: (21:00)
Yeah. It feeds your soul when things are happening. It’s magic. That’s not by accident. Those are people intentionally making sure that what they’re doing isn’t interfering with the other person’s job and allowing that other person to have the space to do their job. There’s a DP that I absolutely love. They’ve moved to LA, makes me so sad, but also very happy for them. They make everything that I do look 300 times better because they know how much time and effort it took. And they give me that space to do what I need to do to make my job work. And then they find the best angles to film it. And that’s when I say it’s magic.
(21:47)
That’s when those pieces fall together. But it’s about the relationship. It’s not necessarily about project. It’s the relationship building. If I was to say, what’s the big key for all of art department is building positive, creative, and inspiring relationships. There was a time in my career where I took everything so personally. And I had a great production designer that taught me 100 things to do on set. One of them was to fly. That was one of my favorite things that I learned from them is just to get… They were dancing, but find something to get out of the space that you’re in. You do have to reign back your crazy to make a project work.
Tanya Musgrave: (22:31)
Could you give me an example?
Clifton Chandler: (22:33)
I had a director who was very particular about what… They didn’t give me enough time to really build the set the way that I wanted to. And they were just having to get stuff done and doing stuff. And gosh, they actually yelled at me on set in front of everyone, probably a crew about 20 people. There were four actors in the room. There was a 14 year old actor sitting in the corner waiting for their turn. I was just mentioning something in order to help their set. The actor did a movement that wasn’t described in the previous discussion and they moved and there were cords under the table that you could see from gaffing. There’s chords in your scene. And so I mentioned, “Hey, we didn’t get a chance to talk about this or see where the action of the movement is, so there’s cords in there. What do you want me to do? Do you want me to try and fix this?” And just a snap ego trip, just, “Are you making this film or am I” and blah, blah, blah.
Tanya Musgrave: (23:42)
Oh my stars.
Clifton Chandler: (23:42)
And so my crazy was boiling up and all I said is “I was just trying to make this film the best that it could be. Sure, it’s your film. If you want chords in it, you can have chords in it.” And I walked offset and I just cooled off. And it was one of those things where I could have definitely pushed and did it and made sure that the cords weren’t in there and all that kind of stuff, but at that point, did the director really want me to do that? Did they really want me to do my job? I don’t think they did. I was like, “All right, well then you can have cords on your set.”
Tanya Musgrave: (24:20)
It would be a perfectly reasonable thing to ask because it could have been even something of the camera op or the DP like, “Oh yeah, the shot wasn’t supposed to dip that low.” Something so simple. Good on you for walking away number one.
Clifton Chandler: (24:32)
Yeah. Well, and then that was the thing is I had-
Tanya Musgrave: (24:35)
But also good on you for speaking up and seeing that.
Clifton Chandler: (24:37)
I had every crew person come over and be like, “Hey, are you okay?” And I’m like, “Yeah, I’m fine. I was doing my job.”
Tanya Musgrave: (24:43)
You can’t argue with that. That’s why I’m here. Do you want me here or not?
Clifton Chandler: (24:47)
But I will never work with this person again. The punishment for having stood up for myself is I didn’t get an actual card at the end of the credits. Everybody else got their own card and I got lumped in with the art assistance. As a production designer, I didn’t even get my own name and it wasn’t even on a legible slide. It was on a slide that was really difficult to read.
Tanya Musgrave: (25:13)
That’s a level of petty. Come on.
Clifton Chandler: (25:15)
It was a level of petty that I will never forgive or forget.
Tanya Musgrave: (25:22)
Oh my stars. Oh my stars.
Clifton Chandler: (25:23)
That’s what I mean about vibe. You really have to find those people and find the family that you love to work with. And then, it does become a family and you take care of your own. You take care of those that are doing a good job and then you make magic.
Tanya Musgrave: (25:38)
And speaking of magic, one of the things that I think we had talked about one time was just the role of colors and textures and all that.
Clifton Chandler: (25:44)
Oh, yeah. My favorite.
Tanya Musgrave: (25:45)
Yes. Right? And I don’t remember who I heard it from or where I was, and I don’t know if it was a wardrobe person or a production designer, but I remember her big thing was that every well-rounded piece has three textures and I’ve always looked for it now. I’m just like, oh, Hey, cloth, leather metal, wood, this. There’s always something, Hey. Yeah, I see it. I see it.
Clifton Chandler: (26:06)
See, there’s there’s wood, metal, velvet.
Tanya Musgrave: (26:06)
Yes.
Clifton Chandler: (26:06)
Yep.
Tanya Musgrave: (26:16)
Is there some, I don’t know, random rule like that that you live by. The textures is one thing, but is there a rule that’s out there in the ethos that, I don’t know, a rising production designer would love to know?
Clifton Chandler: (26:33)
This probably question gets a little tricky for me because I didn’t go to school for art. I took a couple art classes in college. In high school, I was homeschooled. I only took a couple classes through the college, beginning drawing, that kind of stuff. I did, however, spend every waking moment in college at the bookstore, at the library pouring over Japanese garden designs, small home renovations, architecture books, sculpture books. I poured over every design style book with pictures and little snippets and stuff. And so I feel like I’ve over the years, over those 10 years and beyond, I’ve gleaned so much information through visual and auditory, watching movies upon movies upon movies that what fits and what works is just now ingrained. It’s just an automatic thing. I can walk through a store and be like, okay, these three things work because you’re right.
(27:42)
Texture, colors. I don’t have the formulas that maybe someone who went to art school or film school would have that says, “Oh, well this is what you need for composition.” But again, you know your shapes. Shapes are very important. I think rule of thumb for me is if a set looks good flat, then you’re probably good. Composition wise, if you look at the frame of a picture in the camera and it looks like a painting, it looks like a good composition, then you’re good. If something’s off, figure it out. Help the DP figure out why. Maybe it’s there’s too much space up here. That kind of thing.
Tanya Musgrave: (28:28)
You and I were evaluating a set and you said something where the set looks flat. In that particular context, it was not a good thing. What’s the difference?
Clifton Chandler: (28:39)
You do have to look at things with a background, foreground, middle ground. There are those types of terminology that you do have to know. Okay, well we do need something up front. We do need something in the middle and we need something in the background. Now, that also has to be discussed with your director because sometimes directors have their own ideas of what it should look like. And sometimes they want it to be empty and cold and unnerving. You have to have that discussion. And again, that goes back to have your discussions with your director, with your director of photography, with the vibe. Get on the same page. Because if you’re filling a scene with too much stuff and it throws them off, then you’re not doing the right job.
Tanya Musgrave: (29:27)
Now we’re going to ask about some of the tools of your trade. We’re going to go by a rapid fire here. What year or gadget is a good, old, reliable?
Clifton Chandler: (29:36)
Definitely a Mary Poppins bag, a Mary Poppins bag with all the things that you don’t know that you’re going to need.
Tanya Musgrave: (29:42)
Why fingernail clippers?
Clifton Chandler: (29:44)
Fingernail clippers because it helps with any kind of wardrobe issue. If there’s fuzz or anything like that, you can use it to cut people’s beards or hair. It’s super strange and weird. It also allows you to cut string or any small stuff.
Tanya Musgrave: (30:00)
Huh? Okay. Okay.
Clifton Chandler: (30:01)
Like I said, it’s one of those things I never knew I needed until I needed it. I always have just a random assortment of tools, picture hanging stuff. A lot of times, like I said, I’m going to throw out 3M again, but if I had not found 3M strips, my job would be so much harder if they did not develop that technology. That’s Velcro. Come on. Velcro on walls, perfect thing in the whole world, bill me later. That and then what else? I always bring something fun on set. I always bring something to liven up the mood or just help me focus again on that hey, this is fun. Ikea bags. They’re the cheapest and easiest thing to use to organize stuff. And it doesn’t take up space at your house.
Tanya Musgrave: (30:49)
Okay. All right. Nice. How about your favorite new gadget that revolutionizes how you work?
Clifton Chandler: (30:54)
Huh? It’s not new, but it’s new to me. Google Sheets. I used to hand write lists of props and things on the back of the script. And now with my new computer, I’ve been using Google Sheets a lot.
Tanya Musgrave: (31:17)
Internet.
Clifton Chandler: (31:18)
A lot more now.
Tanya Musgrave: (31:21)
Nice. Very nice.
Clifton Chandler: (31:22)
Yeah. I feel like I’ve stepped up somehow. Like I said, I’m from Alaska, so everything happens at least a decade later than it should.
Tanya Musgrave: (31:33)
Oh my gosh. Well, aside from the aversion to technology, you have the speakeasy in the back. Come on. All right. Favorite industry related new purchase? What have you just gotten that has to do with the industry?
Clifton Chandler: (31:50)
It’s my drawing tablet from Wacom. My Wacom tablet. Yeah. I taught myself over COVID how to illustrate digitally. Originally, I did everything by hand with pencil and paper and whatnot. And I taught myself with the Cintiq 13 Pro from Wacom. And that is the new gadget for me that has just… I do concept art now so much easier and quicker.
Tanya Musgrave: (32:19)
A story of when something went wrong.
Clifton Chandler: (32:24)
Oh geez. I told the good story that went wrong already.
Tanya Musgrave: (32:27)
You did. You did. You did. But I want another one. And what you did to fix it or grow from it.
Clifton Chandler: (32:31)
Okay. There was another project I was on. It was sci-fi. It was the smallest, low budget thing that you could think of. It was a short film. We had slotted a whole month of pre-production. It was supposed to be a whole month of prepping this space. It was an empty warehouse. It was supposed to look like a laboratory. And I ended up only having two weeks. And this was when I was still working a day job and I had taken time off work and I didn’t have a lot of money, but I still really wanted to do this project. And the director changed the dates and was like, “You have to live with it. This is what we got.” And so I rolled with it. I did everything I could to just be like, all right, cool. Let’s just roll with this. And worked day and night, ended up getting a lot of things donated and borrowed. And for the budget, it looked pretty great.
(33:24)
I had help with a couple projects, a couple of the bigger props. The director brought in another person to do some prop building. And those props that were brought to set weren’t up to the same level that my stuff was. It looked very out of place. I didn’t really have the ability to ask to have them redo it. And there really wasn’t any time. And again, it was one of those things that it was just small things being said of, “Oh, you haven’t done your job right” or, “Oh, this didn’t work out. We gave you all this money.” You didn’t give me all this money and you hired somebody else without asking me if I needed that. There was a lot and there was supposed to be a dead body skeleton that was badly burnt. And I had talked to my special effects person and they had done a great job on the body and everything was great.
(34:20)
And it was burnt on the wrong side. And the director flipped out and was like, “This is not what we talked about.” Even though in the script, it was the way I had asked the person to do, but when they were filming, they filmed it the wrong way because they hadn’t walked through the set to look at the right angles that they wanted to shoot the right way. Instead of getting burnt from the back, they got burnt from the front. And so it was one of those things where the communication wasn’t there. And then I got blamed for having my prop person make it the wrong way, even though the script said it this way. And that was one of those times where I took it so personally I’d never been angry on set except this one time. And we had just finished shooting part of a set.
(35:12)
And I put my fist, my hand through a panel that I had made just out of sheer I had no more emotional energy and it just needed to go somewhere. And then I just burst into tears. It was one of those moments where so much was being nitpicked and pulled apart. And I was juggling all these things. And this one time I broke and I just started bawling, hardcore bawling. I just sat in the rain on the stoop of the studio space, just crying for a good 45 minutes. I had a couple people come out and try and get me there. And then I walked back into set, finished the day, finished everything, very professional, but that was probably the lowest I’ve ever been on set. And so I think that’s probably what helped me be professional. With that other story with the other director was because it’s like, look, I can’t put all of myself into these things anymore. I will put my soul into it, but I need to know that it’s going to be protected.
Tanya Musgrave: (36:24)
Absolutely. There’s a lot that we talk on this podcast about boundaries. And I think even for artists, because we have the tendency to just give and give and give and give, I can definitely relate to your story of having that kind of passion be picked apart.
Clifton Chandler: (36:44)
And then at the end of the day, all the work that you did gets tossed in the dump. That’s the other thing. None of the camera department or gaff gear gets dumped in the garbage after all of that work,
Tanya Musgrave: (36:56)
Literally.
Clifton Chandler: (36:57)
But art department literally gets dumped in the trash at the end of the day.
Tanya Musgrave: (37:03)
Literally.
Clifton Chandler: (37:03)
Literally.
Tanya Musgrave: (37:04)
That’s so true.
Clifton Chandler: (37:05)
Yeah. All the work that you did for months on end then gets tossed into the garbage.
Tanya Musgrave: (37:14)
I never thought of that.
Clifton Chandler: (37:16)
When you have water bottles on set, it’s hard. You get visceral reactions. Because it’s like, you’re treating my space as garbage, even though I know at the end of the day, it’s actually going to get trashed.
Tanya Musgrave: (37:30)
Yeah. Yeah. What questions should I have asked you?
Clifton Chandler: (37:38)
Why?
Tanya Musgrave: (37:42)
Okay. Why?
Clifton Chandler: (37:44)
Why would I put myself through physical, emotional, mental, sometimes spiritual stress? Why would someone want to do that? And to be honest, I have that question often for myself sometimes, but at the end of the day, art is life. Some of my most memorable moments is watching everything come together, being on the monitor and seeing my work and the work of a dozen other people create an emotional, visceral reaction that once everybody comes out of him, you hear the word cut, and you come out of it and everyone’s cheering and excited because they know they’ve made something good. That’s what makes it worth it.
Tanya Musgrave: (38:46)
So good. How do people find you or follow your work?
Clifton Chandler: (38:51)
Mostly on Instagram at Clif Chandler with one F, Clif Chandler World Creator. I have a website www.cliftonchandler.com. And it’s not updated very often, so there’s some old stuff on there. I don’t know if this is a time to shout out to my next project.
Tanya Musgrave: (39:10)
Yes, absolutely. This is your shameless plug up.
Clifton Chandler: (39:13)
Okay, cool. Speaking of illustration work, I did work for this wonderful, lovely, if you can see it’s a huge map of the world, but I’m into Dungeon and Dragons. And so I’ve been doing some work for a lovely man, Joey O’Day over at DweebQuest, which you can find them on YouTube channel DweebQuest. And they’re going to be rolling out a Kickstarter sometime this summer with all of my art and concept art in it for their campaign book.
Tanya Musgrave: (39:48)
Yes. Because the thing that we did not touch on was the world creation. And I remember we got together on a second set, and I remember you were just like, “Oh yeah, by the way. I created a whole entire written alphabet and language and maps” and I was like, “Get out. Are you serious?”
Clifton Chandler: (40:08)
This is the second time I’ve done that. I did that for a film and this is another time I’ve done for a D&D campaign book.
Tanya Musgrave: (40:16)
Love it. This has been so cool. Man, I can’t wait to get together, number one, because it’s going to happen.
Clifton Chandler: (40:23)
Oh yeah.
Tanya Musgrave: (40:25)
I can’t wait to assist for you because-
Clifton Chandler: (40:28)
That will also happen.
Tanya Musgrave: (40:29)
Throw that hat out there.
Clifton Chandler: (40:30)
I like your vibes.
Tanya Musgrave: (40:33)
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your insight, for opening up and sharing what you can to all of our listeners out there. I know anybody who’s wanting to get into art direction or production design will find this extremely helpful.
Clifton Chandler: (40:48)
Well, I was happy to be here. It’s definitely a tough job. Someone has to do it. Loving the magic that we can create together, that’s that’s the reasons why.
Tanya Musgrave: (40:58)
If you enjoyed this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram, ask us questions, and check out more episodes at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well and God bless. We’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.