It can be scary taking a leap to start your production company, but it doesn’t have to be.
This week Erik Harty, Executive Producer for Long Division Films, gives advice on how you can start your own commercial filmmaking company. Erik shares how to structure your company, what gear you should use, and what you should include in your portfolio when making a pitch.
Erik’s company has worked on projects for Doritos, Geico, and Bank of America.
Watch to learn how you can launch a successful commercial filmmaking company.
Key Points:
2:49 – How he got started
3:48 – TV/Film vs commercial filmmaking
11:40 – First big projects
15:30 – Company structure
28:11 – Networking with crew
31:16 – Favorite Gear
38:42 – Something going wrong
45:01 – What to include in your portfolio
Links:
Long Division
Hot Budget
Studio Binder
Erik on LinkedIn
Full Transcript:
Erik Harty (00:00):
We were shooting in the Angeles National Forest. Despite all of our best efforts and stuff like that, to make it really clear where everything was happening, and getting people there and coordinating everything, someone got lost on their way to set. There was a brief scene at the end that she was going to be in, and she was supposed to play another character’s my mom, one of the child actors, and she got lost. There was no cell service where we were. We had people running around, trying to find her, driving all over the mountains, trying to track her down.
Tanya Musgrave (00:35):
[inaudible 00:00:35].
Erik Harty (00:36):
By the time we got to shooting her scene, and we rescheduled the day to try and get some other stuff done, hoping she’d show up, and she just never showed up.
Tanya Musgrave (00:43):
Welcome to The Practical Filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival, where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts, and the steps they took to find their success today. In this episode, producer, Erik Harty, explores owning your own entity as a commercial filmmaker, putting out spots for companies such as Bank of America, Budweiser, Champion, and Doritos. Find the full transcripts and more at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave, and today we get to chat with executive producer of LONG/DIVISION, a director-led commercial production company based out of LA, who has done work for companies such as Bank of America, Budweiser, Champion, and Doritos. Welcome, Erik Harty.
Erik Harty (01:21):
Hey, what’s up?
Tanya Musgrave (01:22):
Hey, welcome to the show.
Erik Harty (01:23):
Good to be here.
Tanya Musgrave (01:24):
We’re actually in the same space right now. We’re sitting in this bomb theater room at this Airbnb Park City, Utah. A group of us were meeting up for Sundance, and then they canceled all of their in-person. And so the deposit had already been paid, so some of us met up anyway.
Erik Harty (01:39):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. We have the theater here, so-
Tanya Musgrave (01:42):
I know. Yeah.
Erik Harty (01:43):
… it’s better than sitting at home and watching it on your laptop.
Tanya Musgrave (01:45):
I know. Right? So actually still being able to have that communal experience, and watching something, but yet still online, oddly enough. So it was really cool. Because they actually even said… because we saw Dual. Right?
Erik Harty (01:56):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tanya Musgrave (01:57):
The filmmaker for that, in the Q&A afterwards, he was just like, yeah. Since all of the in-person had been canceled, Aaron Paul, they had all just gotten together, and Boise, and just did the same thing.
Erik Harty (02:08):
Right, right. Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (02:09):
It was amazing.
Erik Harty (02:10):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (02:11):
But in any case, yeah. In-person, you cannot beat in-person conversations. So-
Erik Harty (02:16):
Totally.
Tanya Musgrave (02:17):
… it’s been awesome. We had been chatting, and I had heard that you were into commercial film, headed up your own company. Since we’re expanding our journey outside of traditional Hollywood model… We still pull in the stuff that everybody can relate to in that space, as well, but we’ve dipped into commercial filmmaking in the ad space and that kind of a thing. So I was curious what it’s like for those who head up their own entity. So thanks for indulging, by the way.
Erik Harty (02:46):
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me.
Tanya Musgrave (02:46):
But yeah, what has been your journey so far? How’d you get to where you are now?
Erik Harty (02:49):
So I got my start young. My dad had a Hollywood background, a Hollywood post-production background. So I’ve been around filmmaking my whole life in a variety of capacities. I didn’t think it was going to be the thing for me, but long story short, I ended up going to film school, thought I wanted to be a director, and-
Tanya Musgrave (03:09):
Don’t we all?
Erik Harty (03:10):
… for anyone who’s gone to film school, so much of it is just making everyone else’s projects. You work on everything together, and through that process, I just realized that it was more creatively fulfilling for me to be in a facilitating producer role than being the creative lead myself. And so ended up leaving film school more in that mindset, and had the opportunity to build some relationships with some really fantastic directors. At one point, we were like, let’s just take a crack at this and see what we can make if we all band together and pool our resources and just give it a go.
Tanya Musgrave (03:49):
So, your dad had a background in Hollywood. I’m curious the dichotomy of that. I guess we had particularly touched on… I don’t know, how people end up in commercial filmmaking, and that kind of thing-
Erik Harty (04:03):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (04:04):
… because it seems to be where some people prioritize certain filmmaking as real filmmaking-
Erik Harty (04:09):
Sure.
Tanya Musgrave (04:09):
… what have you, and-
Erik Harty (04:09):
Sure.
Tanya Musgrave (04:10):
… I was just curious what that was like for you.
Erik Harty (04:13):
Yeah. In terms of movie TV, filmmaking, versus commercial-
Tanya Musgrave (04:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Erik Harty (04:18):
… filmmaking, the artistic element behind that-
Tanya Musgrave (04:21):
Yeah.
Erik Harty (04:22):
… discussion?
Tanya Musgrave (04:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erik Harty (04:24):
So when I was in film school, like I said, I thought I wanted to be a director, and I was thinking like, short films, music videos, maybe that kind of thing. And then maybe at some point, feature films. It was definitely instilled into my brain that that’s what filmmaking was, is narrative stuff. What I’m doing now, I had no idea this existed, what I do now, when I was in film school. But yeah, there was definitely this attitude that from a artistic perspective, somehow people making commercials are not really filmmakers. I don’t know. It’s kind of a dirty word, making commercials. People would like-
Tanya Musgrave (05:08):
Oh, second. Right?
Erik Harty (05:09):
Yeah. Joke about like, where’s the creative fulfillment in making a mayonnaise commercial, or something like that.
Tanya Musgrave (05:16):
Some people would find that valid. Like, oh yeah, I’m making mayonnaise, as opposed to like, oh, at least it’s a crappy indie, but it’s mine, I guess.
Erik Harty (05:27):
I totally get that. There’s definitely a lot of work out there that’s not particularly boundary pushing from a creative perspective, not necessarily fulfilling. But I think the thing that I realized in working with people who had more of a commercial background post film school is there’s so much creativity, storytelling skills that go into making good commercials. At the end of the day, especially nowadays, the type of commercials that we’re seeing more and more of, many of them have at least a light narrative basis. How do you tell a story in 30 seconds? That’s-
Tanya Musgrave (06:10):
It’s hard. Because you know how they say brevity is the soul of wit-
Erik Harty (06:13):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (06:13):
… kind of a thing?
Erik Harty (06:14):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (06:14):
You don’t have the time to come up with a five-minute that thing, but you can-
Erik Harty (06:17):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (06:17):
… for 40.
Erik Harty (06:19):
Right. I think everyone would be… Just about any director I’ve ever met would be thrilled to get the opportunity to make a feature length film, fiction or documentary. But at the end of the day, there’s a lot of people I work with right now who I think would be pretty content doing commercials for a while, if not their whole career. It’s a specific type of commercial, it’s maybe not the mayonnaise commercial. But, I don’t know, if there’s a way that you could turn that into a really story-based approach to a mayonnaise commercial, maybe, but-
Tanya Musgrave (06:52):
Do you know Solomon [inaudible 00:06:55]?
Erik Harty (06:55):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (06:56):
I feel like a lot of the stuff that he does is very, very story-based.
Erik Harty (07:00):
Yeah. He’s crazy.
Tanya Musgrave (07:02):
Insane. He’s come up with this unique blend of using his cinematic storytelling in a very distinct commercial sense.
Erik Harty (07:13):
Yeah. Fortunately, I’d say, right now, more than ever, the ad industry is really receptive to cinematic, more traditional storytelling style approaches. Because at the end of the day, there’s just so much content that we consume every day, they’re just constantly, constantly grasping at straws, looking for new ways to get people’s attention. The old, stereotypical, boring commercial is… it’s long gone. Nobody is going to notice that, they’re just going to scroll right past.
Tanya Musgrave (07:46):
I’ve seen like, you’re scrolling through reels or TikTok, and you’re just like, what in the world? It’s like this weird story that someone starts telling. And then by the end, I realized that it was advertising for a book. I was like, wait, what? They were telling the story of their book with somebody’s half junky video. You know what I mean though?
Erik Harty (08:10):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (08:11):
You think you’re watching somebody’s normal reel, and then you’re just like, wait. And-
Erik Harty (08:15):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (08:16):
So yeah, advertising in many manners of senses look completely different now.
Erik Harty (08:21):
Right. Honestly, I think the biggest takeaway for me that really catapulted my interest into commercial filmmaking is just that micro format storytelling. Like I said, how do you tell a story in 30 seconds? Right now, really, the question is more, how do you tell a story in like six seconds? I’m just very fascinated with the skillset that’s capable of doing that.
Tanya Musgrave (08:47):
So where did that transition take you? As in, the rubber meets the road kind of transition, once you figured out that you don’t necessarily… you were headed in this commercial direction, what were your first steps?
Erik Harty (08:57):
It’s kind of a stereotype. It was a bit of a windy road, there wasn’t a clear path per se. But one of my partners at LONG/DIVISION, Alex Gilbert, he went to Art Center College of Design, which is a school in Pasadena that has a commercial focus a little bit.
Tanya Musgrave (09:15):
Okay.
Erik Harty (09:16):
The artistic quality of stuff that’s made there, whether it’s filmmaking, photography, design, it’s all-
Tanya Musgrave (09:22):
Wow.
Erik Harty (09:22):
… it’s incredible work.
Tanya Musgrave (09:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Top tier.
Erik Harty (09:25):
So again, commercial is not a bad word in that sense, but their focus seems to be on preparing artists for the world of commerce, and training them as really incredible artists, and then also preparing them for how to make a living using their skillset.
Tanya Musgrave (09:42):
Okay. Yeah.
Erik Harty (09:43):
And so the film program, there has a pretty large emphasis on getting into the commercial production world. And so he was just a lot more familiar with that than I was. He did some interning at a few production companies and stuff like that, and got a chance to see into this really niche world and how it works. We’re not exactly sure how we’re going to make it work, but how do we find a way to fund work that we want to make? The solution was like, well, what if we could make content that we’re really interested in making, and someone else could pay for it and pay us to make it?
Tanya Musgrave (10:18):
The dream, obviously.
Erik Harty (10:20):
Yeah. And it was like, well, sounds like commercial filmmaking, commercial production.
Tanya Musgrave (10:25):
Okay.
Erik Harty (10:26):
But there wasn’t like a specific path to that. Even from there forward, there wasn’t really a specific path.
Tanya Musgrave (10:32):
Really? That sounds like a story right there.
Erik Harty (10:34):
Yeah. Yeah. We just went out there and started hustling, I guess, and basically talking to anyone and everyone that we could. The kind of repeat thing was we were always trying to make the project better than what was being asked of us. Of course, being respectful of whatever their need was. We weren’t going to of take the budget and do something they didn’t ask for. But routinely, we’re investing time beyond what we’re getting paid for, in some cases, even money, to take projects and make them look basically more expensive than they actually were to make. We did that enough, that it started to snowball into getting work that is actually at the scale that we were trying to make it look like.
Tanya Musgrave (11:25):
I would love to know how the conversation went when you guys first got your big gig, something that… the name that you recognize as in like, oh, hey, Doritos wants us to do a spot.
Erik Harty (11:38):
Yeah. Our first big gig, if you will, or our first few big gigs weren’t necessarily for big name brands, but they were big in terms of the the budget and the scale and the ask-
Tanya Musgrave (11:53):
Yeah. Do you mind if I ask what the budget was for your first big?
Erik Harty (11:59):
It’s not big. It was big at the time, but the first… I’d say the project that transitioned us out of being a collective of filmmakers and into a production company was a $32,000 job we did for a company called Western Dental-
Tanya Musgrave (12:20):
Okay.
Erik Harty (12:20):
… Orthodontics.
Tanya Musgrave (12:21):
Okay.
Erik Harty (12:21):
They basically just needed to step into the digital campaign space.
Tanya Musgrave (12:26):
Okay.
Erik Harty (12:26):
They hadn’t really done much of that. That project was, honestly, a bit of a bumpy ride, which… It’s to be expected, given it of was a new scale for us. It’s a bummer, they ended up not actually airing the spots for-
Tanya Musgrave (12:37):
Oh.
Erik Harty (12:38):
… a long list of reasons. But that, I’d say, was our first… one of our first big gigs from a scale perspective, and that was just like… it was like a switch flipped, and it was like, okay, suddenly, we’re doing something real and big, and we just got to go. Go, go, go. Honestly, it was really cool. It was really energizing realizing that we were stepping out of being super scrappy, and stepping into a more organized workflow.
Tanya Musgrave (13:10):
Established.
Erik Harty (13:11):
At that point, probably the biggest set we had run was maybe like nine or 10 people. And then that project, we’re working with like 20, 25 people.
Tanya Musgrave (13:22):
Wow. Wow, wow, wow.
Erik Harty (13:23):
So that was a big change. I think from then on, that was a big turning point. Even as like the brands and the agencies have gotten more recognizable in terms of who the names are, I guess it just doesn’t phase us anymore. It just kind of like… it is what it is. It’s onto the next one kind of thing. You wrap a project, and you’re like, “Wow. I just did a Champion spot.” And then a week or two later, it starts running on Instagram or whatever, and people are sending it to you and like, “Hey, you guys made this. Right?” That’s really cool. You have this moment of like… You didn’t even really think about it until then, and then soon it’s like, “Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, my friends are getting ads that I made, and they’re cool.”
Tanya Musgrave (14:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?
Erik Harty (14:15):
You’re not ashamed because they suck or something.
Tanya Musgrave (14:18):
Like, oh yeah, my friend made those. Yeah. I mean-
Erik Harty (14:22):
But I feel like there was a scale turning point, and then bigger name brands started to follow. But at that point, we were just like… just in the groove, and there was just momentum and-
Tanya Musgrave (14:34):
Yeah. There’s no more of that fear of just like, oh, is it okay that we charge this much? It’s just like, this is the price, and that’s it? [crosstalk 00:14:41].
Erik Harty (14:40):
Yeah. At the end of the day, like… I think stepping out of school, there was definitely a lot of struggle around, this is a lot of money, and I’m sheepish about like asking for this much. But then especially after that Western Dental job, it was just much easier to be like, look, to do what you need, we need this many people. It’s just what it costs. We need to make this much to support going through all the overhead processes-
Tanya Musgrave (15:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Erik Harty (15:14):
… to make that happen.
Tanya Musgrave (15:14):
Yep.
Erik Harty (15:15):
And so it’s just like, this is what it costs, and if that doesn’t work, it’s okay. We’re not the right fit. You can find someone else.
Tanya Musgrave (15:21):
Yeah. It’s no longer desperate scarcity mindset of-
Erik Harty (15:25):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (15:25):
… nothing’s ever going to come along kind of a thing.
Erik Harty (15:27):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (15:27):
So how many are in your company now?
Erik Harty (15:30):
We’re pretty small at the moment, and it’s served us well, particularly during the pandemic, being small. But the way we’re structured… So there’s me, and then I have two partners, Alex Gilbert, and John Wong. They’re also directors on our roster.
Tanya Musgrave (15:48):
Okay.
Erik Harty (15:48):
We have three directors, two of them are partners, and one isn’t a partner. But the way it works is I’m like the full-time, and then the directors are working pretty frequently, but not technically full-time. And then we just scale up on a per project basis. That’s a pretty common model for production companies, especially younger production these days. Having a big full-time staff is very overhead-intensive.
Tanya Musgrave (16:19):
It is very Expensive.
Erik Harty (16:19):
We’d like to get to a point where we can be supporting that. Companies that are maybe a few tiers larger than us often do have a few more full-time staff. They’ll have some office staff, and maybe a line producer or two on staff to help with some of the bidding process, and just keeping the workflow consistent from project to project. But that’s how it works at the moment, is we basically just scale up on a per project basis.
Tanya Musgrave (16:44):
I filed for an LLC, literally, just this year, just-
Erik Harty (16:47):
Oh, nice.
Tanya Musgrave (16:48):
… just for… between the podcast, and I’m producing now, and I had photography, and I’m not really doing that anymore. But these little legs that you-
Erik Harty (17:00):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (17:02):
… need. I’m thinking to myself, like, okay, as a sole proprietor, you can get by with anywhere from, if you need to, 35 to 70, or whatever, that range of staff. But you still have other people who are worried about getting gigs. When you have like three of you, and all of a sudden, that 30 or 70-
Erik Harty (17:23):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (17:24):
… is not a lot, you divide that by two, in your case, three, and then on down to your crew, how does life look like? As of now, if we’re diving into the financial weeds a bit here, what would someone expect if they wanted to start their own company?
Erik Harty (17:45):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (17:46):
Even along those sides of financial security and-
Erik Harty (17:50):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (17:50):
… taking salary versus like… Are you salaried?
Erik Harty (17:53):
Right, right.
Tanya Musgrave (17:53):
That kind of a thing.
Erik Harty (17:54):
Yeah. It’s a tough thing. To be really honest, this has been really fun and rewarding, but it’s been super hard, too. It’s a little difficult to answer, because there’s a few ways that you can approach structuring things. For a lot of people, staying a sole proprietor just works, and you can have the added benefit of having an LLC as a sole proprietor, where you get a little bit of extra liability protection and stuff like that. But in our case, we decided that we wanted to go after the portion of the market where the resources are the largest, and that’s in the traditional ad agency pipeline. But it’s a super niche thing, and so it’s really hard to break into.
Erik Harty (18:47):
The framework that I’m referring to is the traditional process, which is changing a lot right now, honestly. But the way that commercials have been made forever is, Coca-Cola decides they need to do some marketing, and so they go hire an ad agency, and the ad agency can provide a variety of services. They can help them do market research, they can help them come up with a strategy. Sometimes, especially nowadays, companies as biggest Coca-Cola will do a lot of that in-house, but then they work with the brand to develop a marketing strategy, and then they bring… the agency brings their creative team in, creative directors, art directors, copywriters, basically to take this marketing strategy and figure out, how is this actually going to be executed? What are we actually going to do to serve this marketing strategy?
Erik Harty (19:34):
A great example of some innovative work that those people will do is like, if you’ve ever noticed most insurance companies make comedic commercials. It’s because at some point, a creative director or whatever, decided like… Some insurance company account was handed to them, and they were like, man, how am I going to sell insurance? I made the joke about it, like a mayonnaise commercial. But honestly, what’s more dry than trying to sell insurance? Like, you know what-
Tanya Musgrave (20:04):
Yeah. Right.
Erik Harty (20:05):
… we’re just going to not even really talk about the nitty gritty insurance offerings, we’re just going to be funny and memorable. That’s the work that the agency will do on the creative side. And then they’ll take like broad strokes things and really whittle it down to creative briefs with storyboards, scripts, oftentimes, casting boards, things like that. They get all that signed off with the brand, and this process can take a really long time. In some cases, we’re working on jobs that the agency creatives have been bouncing back and forth with the brand for like nine months before we’re talking to them. But basically, what ends up happening is… So the agency gets all of the creative locked, and then they need someone to then take their idea and actually make it happen-
Tanya Musgrave (20:56):
Okay.
Erik Harty (20:56):
… and that’s where the production company comes into play.
Tanya Musgrave (20:58):
Okay.
Erik Harty (20:59):
More specifically, that’s where the commercial director comes into play.
Tanya Musgrave (21:03):
All right.
Erik Harty (21:04):
Because the way it works is, there’s so much talent out there right now, and so many production companies-
Tanya Musgrave (21:10):
[inaudible 00:21:10].
Erik Harty (21:09):
… that are all more or less equally capable from a production perspective, that really what a commercial production company with a director roster, really, what their business model is, is it’s part production capabilities, and it’s part talent representation, really. Because all of these companies, they have directors on their roster that are signed exclusively.
Tanya Musgrave (21:31):
Okay.
Erik Harty (21:31):
And so-
Tanya Musgrave (21:33):
Okay. All right.
Erik Harty (21:33):
… the agency says, hey, I’ve got this puzzle that I’ve assembled, and I’m missing one piece. I need someone who is a food director, who knows how to use motion control robots, and has a lot of eggs in their portfolio, and they’re looking for this really granular piece that’s the perfect fit. And so there’s all these production companies clamoring to get this job, but the person that’s going to win the job is the one that has the portfolio that speaks exactly to their need. So, anyways. It’s long-winded but that’s the traditional commercial model. Like I said, that’s changing right now, but it’s still where most of the money is, and where all of the really interesting commercial work is being made. So that’s what we’re chasing after.
Tanya Musgrave (22:18):
Yeah. Yeah. What this reminds me of was… So BYU TV, they had Studio C under that, and they had a bunch of these actors that went and made their own production company and that kind of thing. But, man, they were… I saw them each in these hilarious, hilarious spots. Poo-Pourri was one of them, Loomy, the Fiber Fix, Zip Top. There’s just like a bunch of them that that Studio C crew, they were improv people, and they branched out and started acting for all these things. Oh, oh Purple Mattress, that was another one.
Erik Harty (22:58):
Is that-
Tanya Musgrave (22:59):
Goldilocks?
Erik Harty (22:59):
Is that wrapped up with the Harmon Brothers?
Tanya Musgrave (23:01):
Yes. Yes. That’s what it is.
Erik Harty (23:03):
Those guys are crazy.
Tanya Musgrave (23:04):
Right? Right? Right? But they’re the ones that… If want something really hilarious and witty and memorable about this really boring product that’s-
Erik Harty (23:16):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (23:17):
… like, yes. Sell this one random thing, and they do an incredible job with it. Is that what you’re talking about with… They were known for like that one thing, maybe not even production-
Erik Harty (23:30):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (23:31):
… value, I guess, but like… Their stuff-
Erik Harty (23:33):
So-
Tanya Musgrave (23:33):
… looks awesome anyway, but…
Erik Harty (23:34):
The Harmon Brothers are actually a really interesting example. They’re one of the companies that’s actually breaking the traditional model-
Tanya Musgrave (23:44):
Yeah. Really.
Erik Harty (23:44):
… to some extent. They don’t have a roster of directors. They do have directors on staff-
Tanya Musgrave (23:49):
Okay.
Erik Harty (23:50):
… but that’s not really what they’re selling. They’re selling a new model of commercial filmmaking that’s, honestly, gaining a lot of steam. Budgets are shrinking, but the overall content need has exploded. Because it used to just be, when you were making a commercial, you were just making the commercial for television. But now you have an endless list of places where your ad needs to end up. But like I said, the budgets are shrinking, despite the fact that the need is skyrocketing.
Tanya Musgrave (24:17):
Perfect.
Erik Harty (24:18):
The volume is skyrocketing.
Tanya Musgrave (24:19):
It’s the greatest situation ever.
Erik Harty (24:20):
So the Harmon Brothers are interesting, because they’re an example of a really successful company stepped in and said, hey, so I’m going to be a commercial video production company, and I’m going to have as many of these roles that you need to make something in-house, full-time, which makes it cheaper than paying people on a per project basis. But then also, what they bring to the table is, they have like a couple creative directors, copywriters on staff, as well. So essentially, what they’re offering is, hey, you client who needs some outside help for your marketing campaign, or whatever, maybe you don’t have millions of dollars to go hire an ad agency, but if you do a little bit of like the market research, and a little bit of the strategy, internally, with the people you already have on salary, and then bring it to my team-
Tanya Musgrave (25:14):
That’s amazing.
Erik Harty (25:14):
… and we have some creatives on staff, you could then… So maybe you’re still spending $500,000 on the commercials that you’re making. But instead of spending $10 million with an adage agency-
Tanya Musgrave (25:26):
With [crosstalk 00:25:27].
Erik Harty (25:27):
… who then spends 500,000-
Tanya Musgrave (25:28):
Exactly.
Erik Harty (25:28):
… to make the commercial-
Tanya Musgrave (25:29):
Exactly.
Erik Harty (25:29):
… you’re just going straight to the Harmon Brothers-
Tanya Musgrave (25:32):
Cutting out the middle man.
Erik Harty (25:32):
Exactly. And so that’s a new thing that’s swooping in, as well.
Tanya Musgrave (25:38):
It is genius-
Erik Harty (25:39):
Yeah. It is.
Tanya Musgrave (25:40):
… really.
Erik Harty (25:40):
It is. But it’s just different. Frankly, they do great work, but they’re in a thick niche, for sure. A lot of their stuff is really funny, but the polish tends to be a little bit lower than some of the… Some of the top tier production companies, you can go to them, and you can get Spike Jones to direct your commercial, or Willy Scott or whatever. Obviously, those people are on just a whole nother level from a craft and experience perspective.
Tanya Musgrave (26:12):
I imagine that their spots are incredibly clever, but not necessarily, what you were saying, high, high, high production value.
Erik Harty (26:21):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (26:22):
What it makes me think of is it’s really, really good for the people that are just there at the company, but necessarily for creating the amount of commercial jobs that, for instance, an ad agency might bring in.
Erik Harty (26:33):
Right, right.
Tanya Musgrave (26:34):
Interesting. So I wonder what would happen in that model. If we just jumped to the future, what would that even look like? If like everyone ended up going, hey, well, we can just skip the middle man-
Erik Harty (26:45):
Right, right.
Tanya Musgrave (26:45):
… then what would that do? Is that ultimately going to hurt the… You know what I mean? Like-
Erik Harty (26:52):
Sure, yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (26:53):
… what would it be like if production companies… As they are now, even, they’re shrinking their budgets and-
Erik Harty (27:00):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:00):
… this sounds so horrible. To them, it’s just like, is it undercutting? Is it undercutting the-
Erik Harty (27:04):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:05):
… the whole industry-
Erik Harty (27:05):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:05):
… of just like, no, this is how it’s been built? These freelancers can charge this much. And so maybe that’s… Actually no, because if the freelancers are able to put their foot down and say like, no, I am going to be working for this much, and you guys are just like, this is what it’s going to take-
Erik Harty (27:22):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:23):
… it’s going to be cheaper than them-
Erik Harty (27:24):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:24):
… but this is what it’s going to take to get it. If you want Spike Jones, we can go and get spike Jones-
Erik Harty (27:29):
Right, right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:29):
… but this is what it’s going to take.
Erik Harty (27:31):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (27:31):
But it’s still going to be cheaper than what an ad agency would bring.
Erik Harty (27:34):
Well, that’s what it is, is it’s not necessarily undercutting, it’s just saying I’m going to cut out a lot of the overhead. So the production still costs the same of money as it would’ve, but like-
Tanya Musgrave (27:45):
This is true.
Erik Harty (27:46):
… you’re not having to spend 10 million to then spend 500,000.
Tanya Musgrave (27:48):
Yes. This is true. Oh my God. I feel like I just needed to… Apparently, I just needed to chew on it.
Erik Harty (27:54):
It’s-
Tanya Musgrave (27:54):
It makes perfect sense. I take a long way around sometimes.
Erik Harty (28:01):
Yeah. It’s a lot, if you’re not… This is kind of like my 24/7. But if you’re not familiar with the model and how things are changing, it’s a lot, it’s convoluted, but-
Tanya Musgrave (28:10):
Monies and commercials, so where’s the hub where you guys mingle? Is it just is it a Craigslist ad? Is it like Staff Me Up, filming TV jobs, that kind of a thing or?
Erik Harty (28:22):
Yeah. There’s two answers to that question. If it’s about just crew… A lot of the folks that we work with, they’re doing everything. They’re doing commercials, they’re doing music videos, they’re doing TV, they’re doing films, and they just bounce around. Where it starts to get a little bit more nuanced is especially with directors, but also even producers and ADs, as well, that stuff can start to get really… Those folks can also bounce around, but it’s a whole different beast making a movie, versus making it commercial. Honestly, there really isn’t like a great hub. It’s just like this ethereal network that-
Tanya Musgrave (29:00):
Awesome,
Erik Harty (29:02):
… you’re just have to push your way into. The one thing I will say is we as a company use a resource called Source, and it’s-
Tanya Musgrave (29:10):
Okay.
Erik Harty (29:10):
… basically a database of… It’s not exhaustive, but it tracks a good percentage of the commercials that are made-
Tanya Musgrave (29:19):
Ooh. Interesting.
Erik Harty (29:20):
… and you can go on and you can look at credits, you can find out who the agency was-
Tanya Musgrave (29:24):
What?
Erik Harty (29:24):
… who the production company was.
Tanya Musgrave (29:26):
That’s incredible.
Erik Harty (29:28):
Yeah. It’s expensive, and really only makes sense if it’s the business you’re in.
Tanya Musgrave (29:34):
A company that’s paying for it?
Erik Harty (29:35):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (29:35):
Is it like a subscription model kind of a thing?
Erik Harty (29:38):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (29:39):
Do you mind if I ask how much a month?
Erik Harty (29:41):
Yeah. I know, for a fact, that we are on the cheapest tier yeah. Because they basically price it according to your scale.
Tanya Musgrave (29:50):
Okay.
Erik Harty (29:51):
So we’re the cheapest option, and we’re paying 225 a month.
Tanya Musgrave (29:54):
Okay. All Right.
Erik Harty (29:55):
But I know some-
Tanya Musgrave (29:56):
But if it’s worth-
Erik Harty (29:57):
Yeah. I know there’s another production company that it is a little bit bigger than us, and they’re paying like a thousand a month.
Tanya Musgrave (30:04):
My gosh. The difference between IMDB and M Pro, where like, oh yeah, they… these are the credits and their contact info or-
Erik Harty (30:14):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (30:16):
What’s-
Erik Harty (30:16):
It’s even-
Tanya Musgrave (30:16):
… the difference?
Erik Harty (30:16):
… bigger than that. Because if you don’t have it, you just have to like… If you see a commercial and you want to know who made it, you just have to start digging. So let’s say you see a spot, you’re watching TV or whatever, Hulu, whatever, an ad comes on, and you want to know who made it, you can type in the ad, and you might find it on the brand’s YouTube channel. But nobody gets credited in commercials-
Tanya Musgrave (30:38):
No.
Erik Harty (30:38):
… and so it can actually be pretty hard sometimes to just grassroots dig up information.
Tanya Musgrave (30:46):
Really?
Erik Harty (30:46):
So with IMDB, where you can go and you can find out some baseline information, and then like IMDB Pro, you can get more, in terms of the commercial space, it’s kind of like the difference between having to spend hours looking, or just being able to look it up in a minute or two.
Tanya Musgrave (31:01):
Wow, wow, wow. So it’s basically the commercial IMDB?
Erik Harty (31:04):
Basically. Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (31:04):
Yeah. Nice.
Erik Harty (31:06):
But there’s no free version.
Tanya Musgrave (31:08):
Bummer. Well, if the money is in commercial, there you go.
Erik Harty (31:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (31:13):
Well, I wanted to ask a bit about the tools of your trade. I know that you said that you liked the producing side of things, but maybe there’s some resources that still go up your alley in that way. But what gear, gadget, or resource is an old reliable, something that you just go back to and it’s like your fuzzy blanket, I guess? I don’t know.
Erik Harty (31:34):
Google Drive.
Tanya Musgrave (31:35):
Okay. Yeah.
Erik Harty (31:36):
That’s like the bread and butter. There’s so many different productivity tools that we use, but Google Drive is just-
Tanya Musgrave (31:44):
It’s cheap. We ended up using it for-
Erik Harty (31:46):
I’ve been using it since high school, and it’s just like second nature to me at this point.
Tanya Musgrave (31:52):
What gear and gadget that has revolutionized the way you work, or resource, along the lines of like, what helps you run your company better?
Erik Harty (32:00):
We use things like Hot Budget and Point Zero for our budgeting, which are… Hot Budget’s a plugin for Excel, it’s like 50 bucks. So it’s pretty cheap, but-
Tanya Musgrave (32:12):
Yep.
Erik Harty (32:12):
… it’s really helpful because it basically just condenses the budgeting process. Movie Magic and Studio Binder, we use studio binder sometimes, but I feel like to some extent that is a little bit of a film and TV versus commercial and music video difference. No one I’m working with is using Movie Magic. It’s this huge, robust tool. But at the end of the day, even if I have 50 people on set yeah, it’s like one, maybe two shoot days. So can we condense this somehow. And-
Tanya Musgrave (32:49):
[crosstalk 00:32:49]. So do you do that with Studio Binder then?
Erik Harty (32:53):
Sometimes, from a budgeting perspective. We’re usually using things… Some of our producers People have their own preference, but a lot of times we’re working with Hot Budget or Point Zero, sometimes Movie Magic, still. Hot Budget’s great, because it’s just an Excel plugin.
Tanya Musgrave (33:09):
Really?
Erik Harty (33:09):
Yeah. Just sets the budget up in a much more condensed way, catered to a commercial approach. It’s also set up so that you can, essentially, prep the budget for like an AICP bid form, which is like the-
Tanya Musgrave (33:27):
I have no idea what that is.
Erik Harty (33:28):
I always forget like what the acronym actually stands for. It’s like American… I don’t think it’s institute. It might be American Institute of Commercial Producers.
Tanya Musgrave (33:37):
Okay. Okay.
Erik Harty (33:37):
But all the big commercial production companies are all a part of this group-
Tanya Musgrave (33:40):
Okay.
Erik Harty (33:40):
… and it’s basically a collective that… When some of the union labor negotiations have been going on, the AICP is working with all these commercial-
Tanya Musgrave (33:51):
Oh my gosh-
Erik Harty (33:51):
… production companies-
Tanya Musgrave (33:52):
… no, I know this.
Erik Harty (33:53):
… to work with the unions-
Tanya Musgrave (33:54):
Yes. I know exactly what this is. Actually, we posted this in our stories from AICP, the conclusions they had come to when it came to paying overtime, specifically for commercial.
Erik Harty (34:06):
Right. Right. It’s a group of all of the large commercial production companies, and they also-
Tanya Musgrave (34:11):
Okay.
Erik Harty (34:11):
They have a lot of resources, and then also, they’ve come together and standardized the bid form-
Tanya Musgrave (34:18):
Okay.
Erik Harty (34:19):
… so that essentially when you’re competing against another production company and you’re both bidding on a job for an agency, you know that… Now, you may not have the same profit margin, possibly, but the actual exact bid structure is the same-
Tanya Musgrave (34:36):
So you know-
Erik Harty (34:37):
… because you’re both using this standardized form.
Tanya Musgrave (34:38):
Okay.
Erik Harty (34:39):
Stuff like Hot Budget is set up to basically just generate that-
Tanya Musgrave (34:41):
Dude.
Erik Harty (34:41):
… exact form.
Tanya Musgrave (34:42):
No, because like… Yeah, there have been some things where you’re just like, how am I… Do I put this in a PDF format? Do I-
Erik Harty (34:49):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (34:49):
… just design-
Erik Harty (34:51):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (34:51):
… my own relief… They’re going to look at it in one second and know that you have no idea what you’re actually doing.
Erik Harty (34:57):
Right. Yeah, exactly.
Tanya Musgrave (34:58):
Okay.
Erik Harty (35:00):
It’s set up in an intentional way. It has all of the information that the agency needs to know. Nowadays, agencies have cost consultants-
Tanya Musgrave (35:08):
Okay.
Erik Harty (35:09):
… who are basically there to help them know, is this company like BS’ing me? Is it actually this expensive to put a horse on a boat for a day? It’s like that kind of thing. Those folks insist on the standardized form, so that they could be locking everything in.
Tanya Musgrave (35:25):
Would it work within Google Drive, their sheets?
Erik Harty (35:28):
No.
Tanya Musgrave (35:28):
No?
Erik Harty (35:28):
No. It’s-
Tanya Musgrave (35:28):
Not within Sheets.
Erik Harty (35:32):
… specifically for Excel.
Tanya Musgrave (35:34):
Okay.
Erik Harty (35:34):
Also, you got to be careful about which version of Excel you’re onto.
Tanya Musgrave (35:38):
Oh, poo.
Erik Harty (35:39):
Sometimes people still prefer to work in Movie Magic. And then we actually, for a while, have been using… We have, basically, a custom Google Sheets bid form that we’ve created.
Tanya Musgrave (35:53):
Okay.
Erik Harty (35:53):
That’s what we use sometimes, as well.
Tanya Musgrave (35:55):
That’s amazing.
Erik Harty (35:56):
I think if I was going to make a movie, I’d still use Movie Magic, because it’s just so much more robust.
Tanya Musgrave (36:00):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Erik Harty (36:01):
But stuff like Hot Budget has been developed with the perspective that like, I don’t need… I don’t want to be looking at 100 tabs for this, when I really only need like 10. You need to know how to work with spreadsheets if you want produce anything. Like-
Tanya Musgrave (36:17):
I did hear that. I did hear that from one of the other… The ad guy, he’s just like, ugh, spreadsheets.
Erik Harty (36:22):
That’s so true. It’s funny, I was having this conversation with another producer the other day, and he’s like… he’s like, “I got into producing because I wanted to make cool stuff.” And he’s like, “10 years later, I realized that I’m basically just an accountant.” There’s so much work, so much time that just gets spent in spreadsheets, and honestly, Adobe Acrobat and things like that, just working with paperwork and stuff like that. It’s crazy. Yeah. You need you to know how to work with spreadsheets and just budgeting in general.
Tanya Musgrave (37:05):
I don’t know. You reach an age where that kind of stuff is actually really… When you’re excited about a vacuum cleaner and that kind-
Erik Harty (37:12):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (37:12):
… of stuff, there comes an age where you’re just like, actually, this is a pretty bomb spreadsheet. Does anybody see this? This is awesome.
Erik Harty (37:22):
Well, and honestly, the stereotype is to call something an art form. I definitely recognize the difference between a storytelling skillset, a directing skillset, and a producing skill. But the people that are at the top of their game, even in… whether it’s narrative features or music videos or commercials, the stuff that they’re making happen, from a logistical perspective, is quite often pretty mind blowing. It is like an art form. There’s an AD I know who was like a CSI or something like that, he was AD’ing and they ran out of money in the last three episodes of the season. This guy-
Tanya Musgrave (38:04):
Oh my gosh.
Erik Harty (38:06):
… basically worked with a couple of the producers, and this two or three people found a way to make their last week of shooting happen in 12 hours, and they basically got everything-
Tanya Musgrave (38:17):
Oh my gosh.
Erik Harty (38:17):
I think the director probably would’ve wanted few more pieces, but they ended up shooting, like, I think, three episodes in like 12 or 16 hours, or something like that.
Tanya Musgrave (38:27):
Oh my gosh.
Erik Harty (38:30):
It’s just like… That kind of stuff is really impressive. It’s an insane skillset.
Tanya Musgrave (38:36):
Well, speaking of things going wrong, I would love to know a story of when something went wrong.
Erik Harty (38:43):
Hmm. Stuff always goes wrong. The-
Tanya Musgrave (38:46):
It’s the nature of being a producer. If there was one thing that I learned, even just from the feature from the summer, if that was one thing that learned, it was, why like all these problems? Before it dawned on me that duh, my job is literally to deal with problems. And so, anyway. Continue.
Erik Harty (39:05):
Pretty much across the board, it’s one of those roles that you’re doing your job well if you’re invisible to some extent, because you’re steering a sinking ship, basically, and you’re trying to get it to land before you all drown really is what it is, regardless of what type of content you’re making. It’s not just getting there, but also getting there with a good end product, still. It’s not just about finishing your feature, it’s like, you’d still like it to be good, too. So weirdly enough, the pandemic has been a really good time for us. We’ve experienced some big growth during the pandemic. We were shooting a spot for… It’s out now, so I can talk about this, but it was for… it was through the ad council for the forest service.
Tanya Musgrave (39:53):
Okay.
Erik Harty (39:54):
We were shooting in the Angeles National Forest, and despite all of our best efforts and stuff like that to make it really clear where everything was happening, and getting people there and coordinating everything, someone got lost on their way to set.
Tanya Musgrave (40:09):
Oh no.
Erik Harty (40:11):
One of the key actors got lost-
Tanya Musgrave (40:13):
Oh no.
Erik Harty (40:13):
… on their way to set. There was a brief scene at the end that she was going to be in, and she was supposed to play another character’s mom-
Tanya Musgrave (40:22):
Right.
Erik Harty (40:23):
… one of the child actors. She got lost, and there’s no cell service where we were.
Tanya Musgrave (40:29):
Oh my stars.
Erik Harty (40:30):
And so we had people running around trying to find her, driving all over the mountains, trying to track her down.
Tanya Musgrave (40:38):
[inaudible 00:40:38].
Erik Harty (40:40):
By the time we got to shooting her scene, and we rescheduled the day to try and get some other stuff done, hoping she’d show up, and she just never showed up. We were talking to the agency team, and it was like, we… this person isn’t going to be here. We’ve got to do something else. I was talking to the director, and we were on a break and happened to notice that the actor, the child actor’s actual mom fit… looked not the same as our actual actor, but fairly similar. I was like, “We need to go see if they’d be okay, if she’d be interested in doing that.” Because it wasn’t like a speaking part or anything like that. Would you be willing to just be her mom in a scene or two? We’ve got all the paperwork here, if you’re game and stuff like that, and they ended up… She was interested, and the agency and the brand were okay with it. And so we just hot-swapped-
Tanya Musgrave (41:36):
Oh my gosh.
Erik Harty (41:38):
… this child actor’s mom-
Tanya Musgrave (41:40):
Meanwhile, the real actress is getting attacked by some [inaudible 00:41:44].
Erik Harty (41:44):
Yeah. She ended up being okay, but-
Tanya Musgrave (41:45):
That’s good.
Erik Harty (41:47):
… it’s just one of those things where it’s like, what do you… your actor isn’t there? What do you do?
Tanya Musgrave (41:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Erik Harty (41:52):
[crosstalk 00:41:52].
Tanya Musgrave (41:51):
Seriously, what do you do? Well-
Erik Harty (41:55):
It ended up working out fine, but definitely one of those like, everything is falling apart at once.
Tanya Musgrave (42:01):
It’s fine, it’s fine. We’re fine.
Erik Harty (42:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Tanya Musgrave (42:04):
Oh my gosh. Well, we have a listener question from our Instagram at Practical Filmmaker.
Erik Harty (42:09):
Sweet.
Tanya Musgrave (42:09):
Until you have a good enough portfolio that can to man the asking price of high end clients, how do you create high end product, especially when the product is so often client-driven?
Erik Harty (42:21):
Hmm. I can definitely speak to that from a commercial filmmaking perspective, but I think what I have to say also applies to any sphere that you’re working in. I mentioned earlier that when we first started out, we were pushing projects to look and be and feel bigger than they were. We were fortunate that we were in a position where we could put in a little extra time, where we maybe did have a little extra money to put into a project, or we had a good relationship with the client, and we could nudge them in a direction that we thought was interesting and good for them, as well.
Erik Harty (42:57):
But really, that’s my main advice, is just that as much as possible, if you don’t have the work, make the work that you want to be making as close as you can. If you have $1,000, it’s difficult to make something that looks like you had $100,000. But that was our early success, is making things that seemed a lot bigger than they actually were. At some point, we had a big enough portfolio, that it was like, oh, these people can do this? It’s not like fake it till you make it kind of, but just making sure that whatever you’re doing is pushing your work forward as much as possible.
Tanya Musgrave (43:40):
It’s almost like develop it while you make it, if that makes sense.
Erik Harty (43:44):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (43:44):
You’re like knitting your parachute as you’re falling-
Erik Harty (43:47):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (43:47):
… but-
Erik Harty (43:47):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (43:48):
… you’re learning how to knit a parachute, if that makes-
Erik Harty (43:50):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (43:50):
… sense.
Erik Harty (43:51):
Right. Yeah. The biggest thing is just like, if there’s a specific thing you want to be making, whether it’s a style or a genre or a scale or both, do your best to find a way to make something that looks like that. Especially in the commercial filmmaking space, it can be frustrating at times, but clients and agencies are so risk-averse. They are spending a lot of money, so it makes sense. But they’re so risk-averse, they need to know that you can do exactly what they’re asking. And so the best way for them to know that you can do exactly what they’re asking is for you to have the exact thing in your portfolio as close as possible. And so yeah, it’s just about making the work you want to be making more of, really.
Tanya Musgrave (44:33):
Yeah. In photography, if you wanted to do commercial photography, and you saw a wedding featured on their site, it would be like, absolutely no go. When you-
Erik Harty (44:43):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (44:43):
… say that companies are looking at your stuff in your portfolio, what kind of stuff are you putting on there? Are you making sure that you have a night exterior, as well as a car shot, or as well as a… just what are some of the things that are included within your portfolio?
Erik Harty (45:01):
If you’re trying to pitch on like a Geico brief, and the agency producer sees that you have some testimonial-based three-minute video you did for your college seven years ago in your portfolio, that’s going to be a no go. Even if you have-
Tanya Musgrave (45:21):
Yes.
Erik Harty (45:22):
… something else in your portfolio that speaks to their need perfectly. So there’s definitely-
Tanya Musgrave (45:27):
That could hurt you-
Erik Harty (45:28):
… that element that exists-
Tanya Musgrave (45:28):
… amazingly.
Erik Harty (45:28):
… as well. But honestly, it gets a lot more nuanced than that. One of the biggest things that we started encountering early on, even when we were making stuff that looked at a very large scale, we’d get feedback that it didn’t look like agency creative. The concept didn’t feel like it would’ve actually been… it would’ve actually come from an ad agency. Like, it was-
Tanya Musgrave (45:52):
Interesting.
Erik Harty (45:52):
… maybe a little bit too conceptual or something like that.
Tanya Musgrave (45:55):
Interesting. Okay.
Erik Harty (45:57):
And so we were very conscious of that kind of thing. But then also, from there, you can just hone in on genres you want to be doing. Within our portfolio right now, we have… Alex Gilbert is a really talented comedy director. That’s his background. He’s branched out from that a bit now, just… Because he’s just a really incredible storyteller. And so he’s done a small campaign for BetterHelp, which is an online therapist platform. We’re basically just little short films showcasing different mental health issues that people experience. We all also just wrapped up a three-spot fashion campaign. Another of our directors has a really strong PandaDoc background, and another one is really into sports and motion and…
Erik Harty (46:44):
So you can just build up different genres. There’s just so many out there, that you have to pick and just go down a path. But in terms of trying to figure out something to go after, my advice would be, just look at the commercials you’re seeing. Someone sold that. We’re going to do this, we can do this. And someone’s like, okay, I’m going to pay for that. So look at what what’s being made, and see if there’s anything you’re interested in making, and then go after that.
Tanya Musgrave (47:09):
Yeah. So what questions should I have asked you?
Erik Harty (47:12):
For me, like I mentioned, when I was in film school, what I’m doing now, I had no idea existed. I would see commercials, but I didn’t really know how they were made and what the process was like. I think it’s such a niche space, and there still are a lot of closed doors that you can’t really see into very well, especially at the higher tiers. For me anyways, if I was in film school, listening to this, I would’ve been really interested to learn what the model is for commercials. That’s, like I was, saying, brand hires ad agency, ad agency hires production company because of a specific director that they have on their roster. So I think if there was a question, that would’ve been it. But I don’t know. I feel like we covered some good ground.
Tanya Musgrave (48:02):
Did We go over how comfortable you guys are at the three of you supporting yourself?
Erik Harty (48:09):
Yeah. So to be really transparent about that. we’re a young company. We’ve been working together, I don’t know, maybe five, six, seven years now. But LONG/DIVISION as an entity is two and a half years old now.
Tanya Musgrave (48:24):
Okay.
Erik Harty (48:24):
And so I’d say we’ve been doing it in a very serious professional capacity for about two and a half years. So we’re still in the growth mindset. Like I said, just to be really transparent, LONG/DIVISION, isn’t a profitable venture yet. We’re keeping ourselves fed and everything, keeping ourselves sustained. But ideally, we’d get it to a place where we’re all getting paid, but then also, we’re profiting from the company. Because again, like you said, it’s where all the money’s at. There are a lot of people who work in commercials, who are making bank. For the three of us, that’s not really the focus. Again, the focus is like, we want to be where the most resources are to make the coolest stuff, the most engaging stuff.
Erik Harty (49:13):
And then we also happen to know that if we can do that sustainably, it’ll keep us all fed and happy, and allow us to do whatever it is we want to do with our lives outside of filmmaking. But right now, we’re still in like growth mindset. And so basically, everything the company is doing and making money on is just getting put back into growing and getting bigger and better.
Tanya Musgrave (49:34):
Gotcha. Gotcha. So do you all have other full-time jobs that you sustain, or is it just the grind?
Erik Harty (49:43):
Yeah, it’s just the grind. Really, for me, it keeps me busy five days a week. For the guys on our roster, they’re basically making money on a per project basis. Even now, we’re working with budgets where being the director on a project can pay quite well. The key thing is getting to a place where that scale of work is so frequent, that you’re busy all the time. For the folks on our roster, we’re not there yet.
Tanya Musgrave (50:16):
I’m curious to-
Erik Harty (50:17):
Some people never get there. Even at some of the big production companies, you’ll hear of a director going somewhere really large, like Stink Films or Anonymous Content. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and this guy was talking about how he was at one of those companies, and he made 200 treatments over the course of a year and landed one job-
Tanya Musgrave (50:37):
Dang.
Erik Harty (50:37):
… and decided that it wasn’t for Him.
Tanya Musgrave (50:40):
There’s a saying that I always love, where it’s just like, I don’t… I frankly don’t make much of a living, but I make a hell of a life. You know what I mean?
Erik Harty (50:48):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (50:48):
Because if you’re doing something that you love, and you’re fed-
Erik Harty (50:51):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (50:52):
… that speaks to the artist side of you that’s just like, screw it all, number one. But I was curious, too, you had mentioned that, oh, it’s not that big of a thing, it was at 32k. Right?
Erik Harty (51:03):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tanya Musgrave (51:03):
hat’s pretty big to some other people. Most beginners who come in they see like, oh, he’s done spots for Doritos and Champion and all this stuff, and they might hear this particular part and just be like, ah, what does that mean for me? So what actual bracket are you in now of creating these particular spots. Because I think there’s also something to be said about like, oh yeah, this is all going back into the company, but we’re doing all right.
Erik Harty (51:31):
Right..
Tanya Musgrave (51:31):
You know what I mean?
Erik Harty (51:33):
Right. At the moment we are most frequently working in the 50 to 250k space.
Tanya Musgrave (51:39):
That’s a pretty big space for me. For a 30-second spot, I feel like that’s pretty freaking sweet.
Erik Harty (51:45):
Yeah. It’s great. On the flip side, though, you’d be shocked how quickly that-
Tanya Musgrave (51:50):
Oh yeah.
Erik Harty (51:51):
It’s-
Tanya Musgrave (51:51):
Oh, I know.
Erik Harty (51:51):
… kind of insane.
Tanya Musgrave (51:52):
Oh, I know. I know. I know.
Erik Harty (51:54):
Yeah. But at this point, 50 is on the low end, and it’s typically for fairly small minimal projects. We produce at such a scale right now, that I just can’t… I can’t do anything for $10,000. I can’t even get a crew out for a day for that kind of money. It’s tough sometimes, because we talk to people that really want to work with us, and you have to have that conversation sometimes, that the scale just might not make sense for your need. Again, people can hear like, oh, oh wow, you made something for $200,000, that’s so much money. And it’s like, but most of-
Tanya Musgrave (52:34):
[crosstalk 00:52:34].
Erik Harty (52:34):
… it gets spent on just making it. It sounds like, oh wow, you must be rich, and it’s like-
Tanya Musgrave (52:40):
No.
Erik Harty (52:42):
… no. It’s just like making something is just so expensive, especially when what you’re doing requires a lot of people to do it.
Tanya Musgrave (52:50):
For sure. It’s definitely a community aspect, which is why we like to promote the community as much as we can. So how do those community members find you or follow your work?
Erik Harty (53:01):
Yeah. I mean-
Tanya Musgrave (53:01):
This is a shameless plug.
Erik Harty (53:02):
… you can look me up on LinkedIn, Erik Harty. It’s Erik with E-R-I-K. You can also check out our website longdivision.film-
Tanya Musgrave (53:11):
Nice.
Erik Harty (53:11):
… F-I-L-M.
Tanya Musgrave (53:12):
Nice.
Erik Harty (53:12):
Follow us on Instagram, all that good stuff. Yeah. We love to hear from people. Always looking to meet new folks, new collaborators.
Tanya Musgrave (53:19):
Absolutely. Yeah. This has been great. Seeing the different options out there, options that suit filmmakers who prefer regular income, that kind of a thing, or anything. Your insight has been just, I don’t know, extremely valuable. So thank you.
Erik Harty (53:31):
Good. Good. Yeah. One last little thing-
Tanya Musgrave (53:33):
Yeah.
Erik Harty (53:33):
… I’ll tack onto that, too, is just that it’s great having more steady income, but I think the biggest thing I learned… Looking, back the biggest thing I would tell myself in film school is that we’ve actually found a way to do this, and it be really creatively fulfilling, too. It’s not like you have to choose between being a starving artist, trying to get your film off the ground, or working in commercials and making money. There is a sweet spot to be found, I think, where you can do both.
Tanya Musgrave (54:02):
That’s awesome. Oh, so cool. If you enjoyed this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram, ask us questions, and check out more episodes at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well, and God bless. We’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.