If you have a passion for metal artwork, you might be interested in becoming a props fabricator.
This week Eric Anthony Leong, Props Fabricator, shares how he started in the industry. Eric’s film resume includes Black Adam, Till, and Marvel. In this episode he talks about venturing into the industry, working on set, and setting rates.
Watch to see how you can turn your passion for creating metal artwork into a film career.
Key points:
1:30 – Becoming a prop fabricator
7:29 – Venturing into the film and television world
11:39 – Communicating with different departments
14:10 – Who eats the cost when someone makes a mistake
20:15 – Union requirements
23:08 – Setting rates
28:30 – Something going wrong with materials
34:32 – Tools of the trade
37:50 – Why he’s in the industry
46:06 – Average build time
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Transcript
Eric Anthony (00:00):
So he pulls out from his prop inventory … He’s like, “I need you to turn this into a sword.” And that was a trench knife from World War I. Trench knife from World War I has like a knuckle duster. And then a spike at the pommel, and then a little guard, and then the blade coming up. It’s built for a single hand use for a small little dagger. Well, they had a 21 inch blade and I said, “Well, you’re probably going to want to elongate the handle.” He asked, “What else can we do to make it look handmade?” “We can carve the maker’s mark into it who would’ve made it. We’ll make it look like it’s been stamped into the brass on one side and on the other side we can put like a serial number and we’ll just stamp it in there.” He loved that idea.
Tanya Musgrave (00:41):
Welcome to the Practical Filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today. On today’s show, Atlanta based prop fabricator, Eric Anthony talks props working as a non-union vendor with union productions like Marvel. And we also take the liberty of veering slightly off topic to compare our experiences as Asians growing up in the South. Find the full transcripts and more @thepracticalfilmmaker.com. I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave, and today we’re talking props. Eric Anthony is an Atlanta-based hand prop maker, fabricator, forger, you name it. His works can be seen in Black Adam, Till and across the Marvel Universe, like in Falcon and the Winter Soldier and One Division. All the things. Welcome to the show.
Eric Anthony (01:27):
Thank you.
Tanya Musgrave (01:27):
So, props?
Eric Anthony (01:30):
Well, first of all, let me start out by saying you said prop maker. Prop maker is actually a union covered position, that’s in construction.
Tanya Musgrave (01:37):
Oh.
Eric Anthony (01:37):
I’m a prop fabricator.
Tanya Musgrave (01:39):
Okay. Okay. This is awesome. This is great. Okay, so as a prop fabricator, how did you get to where you are now?
Eric Anthony (01:47):
Well, back in 2004, 2005, I had a beer with a guy at the Atlanta Blade Show and the guy said that he worked on The Last Samurai and I was like intrigued. I was like, “What?” Yeah, he cut out these swords, all the samurai sword for The Last Samurai, and I was like, “Please put me in contact with your guy.” About a week later, I kid you not, I was on the floor sleeping in the showroom of the famous Tony Swatton.
Tanya Musgrave (02:16):
Oh my gosh.
Eric Anthony (02:17):
I basically emulate what he does, but I do it over here in my own style. He’s actually not even in the union and lives in Burbank, California has a showroom called The Sword and the Stone. He’s changed his location. He basically makes the hero items that then get brought over to the studios where they make copies of them and duplicate them in rubber and resin. So he makes the real deal stuff.
Tanya Musgrave (02:46):
Man. Okay, so let’s update our viewers. Tony Swatton, legendary, would you say bladesmith? Blacksmith?
Eric Anthony (02:53):
He’s a bladesmith, armorer. He actually had a similar beginnings than I did. I started in jewelry. He began doing lapidary work with cutting and stones. So we had that kind of kindred spirit. And in my first gig with him, I worked on The Legend of Zoro, Pirates of the Caribbean, the Capital One Credit card commercial campaigns with all the Vikings?
Tanya Musgrave (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. With all the Vikings. Yeah. What’s in your wallet?
Eric Anthony (03:14):
I worked on those. Exactly. So when I was telling people I was making weapons for a Capital One commercial, it was really confusing for a lot of people.
Tanya Musgrave (03:28):
Yeah. And I looked him up. I mean, he was part of some legendary stuff like Legend of Zorro. Yes. But I mean way back in the day too. Not way, way back in the day, but Hook and Blade and Buffy.
Eric Anthony (03:38):
Yeah, he was even featured on Hook.
Tanya Musgrave (03:40):
Wait, what?
Eric Anthony (03:41):
He was the one that’s grinding or forging the hook in the opening sequence.
Tanya Musgrave (03:48):
Oh! Oh!
Eric Anthony (03:49):
Yeah. He made the hook, but he also made the daggers and the swords and all that jazz. And I would say that, I think that that’s part of one of his first big gigs that he did. But I can’t be for sure. But, I mean, he’s known for so many other things. He doesn’t only do film. He does commercial stuff too. He does rockers, rock stars. He does Lady Gaga’s armor and he does this stuff for Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson. Anything metal and hand fabricated you see on any kind of entertainment form, he does. It’s amazing.
Tanya Musgrave (04:28):
And he just happened to be … Wait, is he the guy that you had a beer with?
Eric Anthony (04:34):
No.
Tanya Musgrave (04:35):
Oh, okay.
Eric Anthony (04:36):
I actually don’t even know who it was. And I actually asked him, I asked Tony recently, I said, “Who is the guy that referred me to you?” Because I didn’t never catch his name. I mean, literally just was just shooting the breeze with him. We don’t know. He and I don’t know.
Tanya Musgrave (04:51):
Neither. Neither.
Eric Anthony (04:52):
But we’ve been friends. We’ve been friends since 2005.
Tanya Musgrave (04:55):
Dang. That’s amazing. Okay, so you end up sleeping on this floor and working with Tony. How do things progress from there?
Eric Anthony (05:02):
All right, so I don’t do anything with TV and film for another three years because I have this awesome experience. I get excited about the work that I’m doing. I try and do some things here. I buy movie props as a … Like a memorabilia collection. I started buying props from the Prop Store of London, which is a company that sells stuff through the studios. And so I had all these weapons, and I was collecting them to have almost like specimen pieces to look at, on how they’re put together. I started following all the other fabricators across the world. Terry English, Simon Atherton. I mean, there’s so many, but off the top of my head, for example, Simon Atherton, an armorer in the UK and he made the Alien pulse rifle, but Simon also does armor. Terry English does armor all the way back to Excalibur. Adam Savage with MythBusters, he loves to people like creators.
(06:01):
And Adam Savage and I have the exact same fans … Or, not the same fans. We are fans of the same people. And he got a chance to go over to Weta Workshop and actually work with Peter Lyon, who made all the stuff for Lord of the Rings. I know Peter Lyon and I can’t even do that. I call up Peter, I was like, “I see what you did with Adam. What can I do to get out there?” And he’s like, “You’re going to have to talk to my boss. I didn’t set that up.” I’m like, aw! So we are lovers of the same craft. My beginnings with metal began with jewelry. I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Georgia State University and I graduated … I’m the last jewelry graduate with that. So that’s where my education comes from. First timers and new people in the industry, they often ask, “Well, how do I even begin?” I came up with an art degree, but that’s actually not what you absolutely have to have. It just exposed me to all the different materials.
Tanya Musgrave (07:00):
Yeah. So you said you were the last one that graduated. Did they discontinue that program?
Eric Anthony (07:03):
They discontinued the program. It became a part of the sculpture division, and then I guess it went away because there was no teacher that would be able to … My instructor was even a tenure track teacher. He wasn’t even supposed to be there for very long and they were waiting to fill the full-time position. But there are other programs.
Tanya Musgrave (07:26):
You said your first credit for the art department was Legend of Zorro and you wouldn’t do anything for another three plus years. So using that as your first stepping stone, in that pivot between being under him, a apprentice, I don’t know what you would call it.
Eric Anthony (07:45):
Yeah. It’s apprenticeship.
Tanya Musgrave (07:47):
Okay. But to becoming your own entity, what was one of the biggest curve balls that you were thrown as you were kind of venturing into your own, especially into the film and television world, which you weren’t trained in.
Eric Anthony (08:00):
Communication between departments and knowing who to talk to. I just knew that Tony spoke with the prop master a lot of the times, and I was only there for a couple weeks, so I didn’t have an in-depth full run of show making things. I was there for a little bit of time, and then I used him to gain information on where to go. Tony was the one that tipped me off with my first Georgia based job that I did. And he said, “Hey, something’s come down the line where there’s filming in Georgia and it’s picking up. You might want to go check it out.” My first big job was an NBC series, Revolution, and Tony gave me the address of where to go. And I walked in, I asked, “Where’s the prop department?” They pointed me … It was downstairs. While I’m walking down the hall, I walked by John Favreau.
Tanya Musgrave (08:58):
What?
Eric Anthony (08:58):
He’s in the hallway. I tried to maintain my … Because at this point, that’s only the third time I’ve ever seen a celebrity. And I just nonchalantly walked by like, okay, that was cool. The guy from Iron Man. And I didn’t even put two and two together that he was the director and he was directing that episode, the pilot episode. And so I go in there and introduce myself as a sword maker, weapons maker, and the guy that … I forget the first prop master’s name off the top of my head. And he just threw me a bunch of work. He’s like, “These swords came in, they’re the wrong shape, wrong size. I need you to make this and make it look like it’s handmade.” And I had 23 swords to make in a week.
Tanya Musgrave (09:47):
Okay. And all of a sudden it was like, “All right, well, you came in just for today, but I hope you wore your work clothes because …”
Eric Anthony (09:54):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (09:56):
… “I have stuff for you.”
Eric Anthony (09:57):
I mean, granted, I had a set to be able to handle it, but I had never cast rubber before at that point.
Tanya Musgrave (10:05):
Oh, interesting. How was that?
Eric Anthony (10:09):
The only way that I had to figure it out is, I had to say, “All right, the only way is, I need to find out what material will cure fast and then I can paint them.” And I did it. I just figured it out. I contacted my people over at The Engineer Guy. They’re always so helpful with fabrication questions. I explained what the situation was, and what I was going to do with the metal side of things, and what they can help me out with the plastic and rubber. A quick solution. And see, with pouring chemicals, you can get different cure times, but there’s advantages and disadvantages of certain solutions that you mix together. Sometimes it’s either too brittle or too hard or too soft and too floppy. And that’s where you can see something’s really fake.
Tanya Musgrave (10:57):
Perfect for a sword.
Eric Anthony (10:58):
Yes. That’s why there are so many questions I ask prop masters, buyers, other people that come to me, or even art directors that come to me, I ask all the questions of how the props are being used. Going back to the curve balls, is knowing the communication between departments and what is needed to be made as a prop maker. You need to know what you’re making, how many different versions of it are, and then who has the final say so of what it is before you begin.
Tanya Musgrave (11:29):
Okay. It sounds like that there’s a little bit of a story behind like, ugh, because you picked that right out. You’re like, “Communication between departments,” or even knowing what materials. Was there something that went wrong there?
Eric Anthony (11:40):
Oh yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (11:41):
Give an example.
Eric Anthony (11:42):
Well, for example, when I was brought on with that job, the prop master ordered another guy named Brian in LA to make these … They looked like brass knuckles, but they were gold. They were brass knuckles. They had the slot to put the sword blade in and they were bolted together. And it was a brass knuckle sword. There needed to be more explanation about what that needed to be. It looked beautiful and it was made out of aluminum, but it was machined. It was like perfect machine milled. It looked like something like a gear shifter on a car from … Like you can get at Pep Boys. So it looked really cool, and it was probably very expensive to make and he had a whole bunch of them. But the storyline was that the lights went out. There was no technology, they couldn’t use machines. And it was gold, but it was an anodized, so that’s a chemical process you need electricity for.
(12:47):
And it needed to be made out of something that was cast. So I was like, all right. So he pulls out from his prop inventory, he’s like, “I need you to turn this into a sword.” And that was a trench knife from World War I. Trench knife from World War I has like a knuckle duster and then a spike at the pommel, and then a little guard and then the blade coming up. But it’s built for a single hand use for a small little dagger. Well, they had a 21 inch blade. And I said, “Well, you’re probably going to want to elongate the handle.” He asked, “What else can we do to make it look handmade?”
(13:26):
And I said, “Well, we can carve the maker’s mark into it, who would’ve made it.” And he said, “I got the idea.” And he brings to me the logo of the Monroe Militia. And I was like, “Oh, cool. We’ll make it look like it’s been stamped into the brass on one side, and on the other side we can put a serial number and we’ll just stamp it in there.” And they all had the same serial number. But he loved that idea of that handmade look with the production line assembly. Almost presumed that it was made with by a maker that had a production line. So yeah, that was definitely a miscommunication between what was sent even from the prop master to the maker, and what came down the line from the art director.
Tanya Musgrave (14:08):
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you find yourself ever caught in the middle between all of these where … I mean, because you’re the one that’s forging these things. And if you have somebody, if people are not talking and you’re just like, “All right, here’s what’s going to happen.”
Eric Anthony (14:22):
Absolutely.
Tanya Musgrave (14:23):
What it makes me think of is the effects studios that did the live tiger from Life of Pi, and they were talking about how they went under. They filed for bankruptcy because of how the system was set up where, “Okay, we’re going to pay for X amount of shots,” and “Oh, it’s wrong,” because of the miscommunication and it has to trickle back up. But they didn’t budget for the time that it would take to redo those shots. Is it something where you guys have to eat that cost or do you charge for it?
Eric Anthony (14:56):
No, no. As a vendor, you charge for it.
Tanya Musgrave (14:58):
Okay. All right, all right. That’s good.
Eric Anthony (15:00):
It has to be eaten up by the production.
Tanya Musgrave (15:02):
All right. That’s good.
Eric Anthony (15:03):
It’s not the vendor’s fault that something happens. Case in point with Day Shift, I had a series of weapons that I rented at a low cost because they were nearby and they could come by and pick them up. And we’re talking maybe 60 to 75 weapons that line the wall inside the pawn shop of Troy’s pawn shop in the scene with Jamie Fox. Well, they were asking me to give them the same rates for a reshoot as they did here. And I said, “No, I can’t do that.” Because what they did here, they came and picked and brought it back immediately after they were done. This was the reshoots that were going to be done in LA.
(15:46):
So these things had to be packed up, inventoried and shipped. But fortunately, all they needed to do was send me pictures of each wall. And I was able to go, all right, this is mine. This is mine. And I gridded and mapped out where everything went in the set, and it saved them potentially thousands of dollars because I knew I could look at a wall and say, “All right, that’s an AR 15, that’s an MP5, there’s my bazooka, that’s my long sword.” And so I just took their pictures, printed them out, and I said, “This is wall A1, A2, A3.” And then I taped the number, the corresponding number, wrapped it up and put it in the shipping box. But that was a lot of work, you know?
Tanya Musgrave (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that’s nice.
Eric Anthony (16:30):
I don’t know where I was going with that, but that’s one of those situations where I couldn’t give them the same rate they did here because it was significant and they had to the budget for that.
Tanya Musgrave (16:40):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So as a vendor, no part of your job is actually on set, correct?
Eric Anthony (16:47):
Incorrect.
Tanya Musgrave (16:48):
Incorrect. Okay.
Eric Anthony (16:50):
I am often asked to either A, deliver, because transpo is not available. They need to have to use me as transportation technically, which I know is breaking the rules according to the union. They’re supposed to have a transpo truck pick up what I make and drop off what I make, even if it’s a small thing.
Tanya Musgrave (17:11):
Interesting, okay.
Eric Anthony (17:11):
But time crunch wise, it just sometimes doesn’t happen. It can’t happen. I have to be there. I’ve been asked to come on as specialty talent recently for a show called Die Heart. I played Kevin Hart’s body double covered up in head to toe in a welding mask. You won’t know it’s me. It’s not out yet. So I can’t say much about it. But Kevin Hart does not forge steel. And they needed me for a forging scene. And that’s a very specialized and dangerous talent because I’m working with 3000 plus degree steel. We had the fire marshal there. I made sure that safety was the main concern. I’ve been asked to be an armorer now four times.
(17:55):
The last time was confusing because they needed to have a real gun on set for the scene. And my policy is, I don’t send my real gun. I can’t. Georgia law, I cannot rent my gun to somebody. And then they pass it on to somebody else’s hands. I have to go with it. So the confusion was, is that I needed to be there. I was going to be on set in the parking lot. But then I made a call to one of my friends that was working on it and I said, “Hey, I just want to make sure I touch base with you that you know that I’m coming. I have my live gun.” And he’s like, “Wait, there’s no live guns on it.” So the safety person didn’t know that the props were real. But we can go down a rabbit hole, a whole …
Tanya Musgrave (18:42):
Oh, buddy. We could.
Eric Anthony (18:44):
So I won’t go into that.
Tanya Musgrave (18:46):
We’ll just look at Pandora’s box. We won’t open it.
Eric Anthony (18:50):
So I’ve been asked to be an armorer. I’ve been asked to be a DJ on screen. These are my DJ headphones.
Tanya Musgrave (18:54):
Okay. Because you are also a DJ.
Eric Anthony (18:57):
I have been a DJ since 98, and then I’ve been asked to be a puppeteer.
Tanya Musgrave (19:01):
Random. Okay.
Eric Anthony (19:03):
Yeah. Mike Sabeau had hired me to make a giant 16 foot Dr. Manhattan as a parade float. It was a big parade float where my friend Sonny was the feet. I was the right hand. And my other friend, his brother, Sonny’s brother Nin, was the left hand. And so this thing was huge. We had to be directed by the radio to where to walk. And because we were like the main thing in the background being focused on, in the scene is supposed to be in Saigon where a terrorist bomber blows up the crowd for the TV series Watchman. I got paid to build the prop and then it was a surprise to me that I actually went in as a SAG person and got paid as a SAG puppeteer performer.
Tanya Musgrave (19:54):
Dang.
Eric Anthony (19:54):
Yep. The forging scene is a SAG covered position too. So I haven’t gotten paid yet, but I’m getting the contract in the works right now from the production for Kevin Hart’s production.
Tanya Musgrave (20:05):
Whoa. Whoa. Okay. Okay. I mean, you’re saying some big names here. These are undoubtedly union projects.
Eric Anthony (20:13):
Yep.
Tanya Musgrave (20:13):
Are you required to be union then, as your puppeteer? I mean, I guess those are SAG covered, but as a forger and fabricator, are you required to be in the union to be part of [inaudible 00:20:26] …
Eric Anthony (20:27):
No. In Georgia, since it’s a right to work state, you don’t have to be in the union. Ever since I began, I’ve been in contact with the folks at the 479 and Luana is my main contact who handles new recruits or whatever. She’s the one that answers the phones there. She and I are good friends. She’s coached me through and through and every time I went … I even went recently in the past couple years to get an in depth conversation with Mike Akin and ask the questions that I needed because I was approached to join the 800 Union, the art directors union. And I wanted to be sure which road was best for me or if I needed to be in one or the other or both. Because I’ve already actually, I’ve also been a prop master and assistant prop master.
(21:19):
So every time I’ve explained what I do, because they know, they follow my social media, they follow my Facebook page and I work from home. All my fabrication is done from home. It’s a majority of what I do. If I was working on set every time, then yeah, of course. But a majority of my work, we’re talking 90 to 95% of my work that I do is at home. And I’m better suited to serve the union as a Georgia based vendor because the productions get a tax break from me being a Georgia based company. And that is where it benefits the industry. Low and behold, I was even born here. I was born in DeKalb General back in ’98 … Back in 1980. ’98.
(22:07):
- I graduated in ’98, high school. But yeah, I was born at DeKalb General, so I’m as Atlantan as you can get. I own a home here. I grew up here. I’m from the area and I’ve tried to justify even joining the union. But what would happen is I would still be doing my stuff at home and I don’t only rely on on set work and union rates and all that. I do assess a job with my own value of my time. And it changes if it’s rushed. I do rush fees, but I’m lenient on my clients. My clients being art directors, prop masters, set decorators, set dressers, buyers, who else? Actors themselves. So it is a broad variety. But most of the time it’s prop masters.
Tanya Musgrave (23:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when you’re talking about rates, let’s talk about that for a little bit. Say somebody wants to get into what you’re doing, what is a newcomer who is entering into this field, what could they expect for pay? Or is it like a project rate, a day rate per piece? What could they expect?
Eric Anthony (23:21):
It’s completely up to them. Most of the time when they’re learning, they need to just fixate on, all right, I’m going to get $25 an hour. I estimate this will take me 10 hours. I’m going to clock myself when I begin, when I begin. Or if I choose not to clock myself, just look back and realize how much time you spend on that. Even with the conversations, the going back and forth, you’re asked to do it over again. You have to be in the business mindset of knowing your own value. That is for the actual labor. And then there is cost of the materials that is easily calculated if you buy the materials just for that job. And this is a situation that I’m getting into with my accountant now that I don’t really clock my expenses as well as I should. I also reuse and recycle as much as I possibly can.
(24:20):
So sometimes the materials don’t cost me anything. It’s just the knowledge behind it. It’s knowing how to work with it, knowing how to take a stick from the backyard, dip it in some fire clay and make torches. And that’s what I did for Black Adam. I knew how to work with the materials, and I wowed the production because the production came to me and they said, “Oh, these torches, we need something that doesn’t burn.” I didn’t tell them this, but I was like, I know how to fix that. It’s putting the same material that goes inside my forge onto wood. And I did a demonstration and I took a blow torch, and I did a shot of video with my phone, and I took a blow torch and I lit the torch on fire and it was glowing red. And then I just took a video of it and then it’s just a little bit of smoke off of it. And then it was back to looking like clay again.
(25:13):
I was like, that’s how you do it. So I essentially cured clay on top of wood. And so then they had a torch that they can wrap with a cloth and burn with whatever fuel, with a special effects, they can burn with a fuel. They may have thought of that, but see how that kind of dealt, that dipped into the world of special effects. They needed it done and handmade looking. And sometimes special effects doesn’t make a prop. Or in all actuality, they probably should have gotten without going to me, they would’ve gone to the prop master and the prop master would’ve brought that to the special effects and say, “Hey, can you light this on fire without burning it?” So there’s ways that could have been done that way, but I just take those kind of jobs as they come and solve the problems with what they need. I did the same thing with a body for the prop master James brothers …
Tanya Musgrave (26:02):
Oh, you needed to light a body on fire? We had to light a body on fire for Resurrection, the TV show Resurrection. And I think because of the ratings of it, they couldn’t show skin or hair being on fire. So James took a picture of him on the floor, of himself on the floor in a certain position. And I took that and I sculpted a body at a chicken wire, fiberglass pool noodles, and to shape a body that I could dress and redress, and they can light on fire and it wouldn’t burn. And so yeah, it was up to props to be able to provide the structure for them to light on fire.
(26:44):
So when you’re coming up with that kind of a thing, is it, would it be a per piece type of thing that you would price out? Or, all right, for this body it’s this?
Eric Anthony (26:52):
Correct.
Tanya Musgrave (26:53):
Or is it strictly for this whole entire project you’ve got me like 20 man days or something like that, along those lines?
Eric Anthony (27:00):
Right, it just …
Tanya Musgrave (27:01):
Just like any and all?
Eric Anthony (27:01):
… shoot from the hip. I shoot from the hip with the estimate. And because they know that I deliver every time, I’ve never missed a mark. And if things go wrong with the build, I always am there to take care of it. As a business owner, I address anything and handle and own up to it and make up for it. You have to. But things can go wrong with paint, with the cure time, with bubbles, with speed. If they’re asking me to make something and it’s an experiment, sometimes I say, “I don’t know what will come of it. I’m going to do my best and I’ll take pictures along the way, and then you can decide if you want to pull the rip cord. This is how much I think is going to be, let’s get started.”
(27:50):
Because you don’t really have a choice at this point. And if it’s not what you want, you don’t have to pay for it. I say that. I do that, and I get started, and I put myself out there on a lot of the time, especially with newer people that don’t know the quality of my work. And then when things like that happen, or let’s say it’s not satisfactory, they can’t use it or whatever with what they need because it was just rushed, then they make up for it in other ways. These are my friends that … I mean, it is seriously a family of people that I adore and admire and would do anything for. And they know that.
Tanya Musgrave (28:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You were talking about some of the things that go wrong with your materials. Do you have some examples?
Eric Anthony (28:35):
Yeah. Humidity for example. We’re in Hotlanta.
Tanya Musgrave (28:38):
Okay. You’re in Georgia.
Eric Anthony (28:39):
In Georgia, very humid environment, polymer plastics, epoxy resins. The chemical reaction of mixing resins together causes gases to accumulate inside it. You also need something called a degasser sometimes if you’re sucking out, you’re creating things in a vacuum environment. Humidity can also affect paint and acrylics and clear coats. And you almost need an air conditioned controlled environment. But sometimes you can’t do that in a home. Since I work at home, my sunroom is quarantined off from most, but the air circulation. So it creates fumes.
(29:18):
One of the things I actually did, going back to James brothers is, I made for The Gifted, I made two, three dozen glasses of poured resin that looked like there were glasses that had ice cubes in them. And they wanted them solidified so that they didn’t clank, and they’d move around. But they looked like there was liquids in them. What I had to think fast is I bought a dehumidifier. And I went underneath my closet, underneath the stairs and I emptied out everything into the hallway. I stuck my dehumidifier inside the closet, and that’s where they cured because pouring that resin, even in my home was causing bubbles. Everything looked carbonated. So in order for some of the drinks to not look carbonated, I came up with that on the fly.
Tanya Musgrave (30:03):
Okay. Okay. And it fixed it.
Eric Anthony (30:05):
It did. Nice.
Tanya Musgrave (30:06):
Nice. Nice. Okay. So those are some of the things that have gone wrong with some of the materials and stuff like that. You did mention the communication thing between departments, but what is something that is usually overlooked when dealing with a vendor like yourself?
Eric Anthony (30:26):
I would say one thing that can be overlooked is color. I tell my prop masters and my clients that I suck at painting high end paint jobs on props. The scenic painters that are with the union do wonders to painting. So I often try to tell them, “Look, you need to get these things to the painters, to your guys that are hired to do their magic.” Because I know that I do not possess the time and energy to put to getting all the equipment for airbrushing paint painting. And that’s another skill that’s so intricate, to put a faux wood grain on something.
(31:07):
Or I was talking to Daniel Graham today, he’s a painter that’s out of work right now, but he just filled a job right away. I was talking to him this morning about my job that needs a marble finish and it needs to be a faux marble. He was telling me how he would do it and I was like, “See, yeah, I don’t do any of that.” I would build the structure that would look like marble structurally, and then the marble finish is put on top of it. So we fake it. And a lot of the times it’s overlooked for compensating the time and the skill of the painter to be able to do that. The paint can only dry so fast.
Tanya Musgrave (31:44):
This is true. This is true.
Eric Anthony (31:44):
We had that problem with Wolf Pack recently too.
Tanya Musgrave (31:47):
Okay. Where you have the thing made. But in order for it to look legit, it still had another stage that wasn’t taken into account.
Eric Anthony (31:54):
They had a rubber knife that they wanted a chrome finish on. And I’m sorry. There is one technique that does a chrome finish on a flexible rubber surface and it takes a lot of time and it’s very, very costly. I had it in another fabricator’s possession to handle the surface finish of it, but there wasn’t enough time for him to do it. We did it in less than 48 hours, built two knives, two rubber knives. We had to mold one and pull out three copies. One copy had just a grip and then the other one be as bright and silver looking as possible. Because it’s supposed to look like silver. But that mirror reflection is not easy to get on a flexible surface, you can imagine.
Tanya Musgrave (32:40):
I don’t know, you have those markers that can color chrome.
Eric Anthony (32:48):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (32:48):
You didn’t use those?
Eric Anthony (32:49):
Not happening over wide spaces. It’s great for a little tiny little handwriting. [inaudible 00:32:56]. And then oftentimes those things that you see on commercials are little things that … They’re doctored.
Tanya Musgrave (33:03):
Yeah, Tiktoks.
Eric Anthony (33:04):
Yeah, they’re doctored up. They’re not the real deal.
Tanya Musgrave (33:07):
here’s like no way. Okay. Yeah.
Eric Anthony (33:09):
I suggest you get some and try it. It’s not at the film quality level. And that’s the other thing, also just because it’s a temporary surface, a surface change doesn’t mean that it’s built to last scene after scene, take after take.
Tanya Musgrave (33:22):
This is true.
Eric Anthony (33:22):
A lot of the times they’re just one time. That’s why they need three or four or five of them as backups.
Tanya Musgrave (33:27):
I was just talking with somebody about always having duplicates. He’s an indie director and he’s just like, “Oh my gosh, please just have duplicates. Have duplicates of your stuff because it’s going to get destroyed.”
Eric Anthony (33:38):
Even on my first job, I was working on one of dozens of these swords that Rufus Sewell used in Legend of Zorro. They were having problems with them breaking in Mexico because of the intense fighting scenes. So by the time I got there, they had already been made. I was making the backups that were being shipped overnight to Mexico for them to film the scenes. There was a scene where, I guess, it drops on the train tracks and gets ran over by the train. Well, the prop couldn’t survive the fall so everyone that they dropped during the take would break. I assume. I wasn’t there. But I assume that that’s what was happening. Because we had pieces of them that were brought, sent back and we were casting new ones. And I was doing the wax work to send out to cast and … Yeah. Anyways.
Tanya Musgrave (34:25):
So now we’re going to ask about some tools of your trade. And I’m going to kind of focus on the cross hairs between you being a fabricator and actually working within the film industry. Not necessarily fabrication tools, but how it relates to you being on set. What was maybe even a surprising or just a reliable resource that you found or a gear gadget, all that stuff, that you found was useful to have around?
Eric Anthony (34:52):
Well, I tell my prop crew whenever I’m on it, even doing a props assistant, you got to have a multi tool. Hands down. I was on set yesterday doing a pickup for the game and I was talking to the young lady there. I whipped out my Leatherman like three different times and pinched something and closed something. I was helping her open up straps because they were moving all their assets out of there. And I was helping her strap the things to the transpo truck and I was like, “You don’t have a multi tool, you got to have a multi-tool.” That’s my number one tool that I always keep on me. But yeah, any prop person would have that.
Tanya Musgrave (35:29):
Okay. Okay. How about a new gadget that revolutionized how you worked?
Eric Anthony (35:34):
So, okay, the biggest bread and butter resource tool that I use online is the Atlanta Art Department Facebook group. It’s like roughly 4,000 people that network on there. Not all of them are in the film industry. We found that out recently over the years. But at least everybody is somewhat connected. Jessica Sanchez is one of the ones that is a mediator or founder of the Atlanta Art Department group. I’ve been with the group, the Facebook group, since they were roughly around 1200 people. It’s mostly set dressers. As a networker, that is my most reliable tool. And actually, that would be more useful than a Leatherman on set, is my networking with the Atlanta Art Department Facebook group. I’ve met most of my friends that way.
Tanya Musgrave (36:20):
Nice. Nice. Can anyone join?
Eric Anthony (36:23):
Yes. But there is a vetting. I think you have to answer a few questions and you have to kind of have a little bit of experience with maybe have volunteered or been a PA. I always am surprised, I was on set at Wolf Pack and I asked the kid that was there, I think his name’s Christian, I said, “You’re on the group, right?” And he’s like, “No, what’s that?” I’m surprised that there’s anybody that would be on set already that’s not even joined the Atlanta Art Department group. But apparently there are.
(36:50):
And that’s why occasionally I’ll post, “Hey, special thanks out there for getting me this job, blah blah blah. Thank you for …” And I tell people that, I say don’t go on the group and ask for work. Go on the group and praise the people that get you the jobs or offer a resource that you have, offer a skill, or ask a question about a build, and someone will respond or ask a question about a source. And those are those kind of things that get the conversation started. Everybody’s a family on there and it’s not welcome for people to be badgering anybody and bullying anybody. And that’s what I love about the people there.
Tanya Musgrave (37:31):
So I was recently revisiting some of my older episodes on this podcast and around New Year’s last year, I had kind of delved into my own story as well. And we had talked about these kinds of stories that make us and become our why. And I had totally forgotten that I was wanting to ask that questions of my guests more, to find their why. Is there a story for you that best demonstrates your why, of why you’re in this industry and why you’re doing what you’re doing?
Eric Anthony (37:58):
Time and time again, I find myself overly ecstatic about what I do and what I build. I’m proud of it. I have a lot of pride. I have three children and I like to share the accomplishments to the point where I can pause and freeze the frame and show them what I made on Netflix. It’s the exhilaration of saying, “Okay, cool. That was something big that I was a part of.” And then recently it was just monumental and emotional to be a part of the movie Till. Till’s, the actor’s, ring that was supposed to be Emmett Till’s ring that identified his body.
(38:35):
It’s such a weird thing because the movie is so difficult to watch. I got early access screening to it and it’s a hard movie to watch. But it’s so important that people hear that story and it is just, I feel honored to even have been asked to be a part of it. It’s cool growing up in the south, being a part of that. Even in with my own family’s history. My mom is, she was white, she was born in Tucker, Georgia and my dad’s Chinese and they were not allowed to be married in Georgia. They had to go to Florida to get married when they got married. Because it was illegal for a Chinese and a white woman to get married.
Tanya Musgrave (39:13):
Wow.
Eric Anthony (39:13):
So I’ve even dealt with it.
Tanya Musgrave (39:15):
That was recent [inaudible 00:39:15]?
Eric Anthony (39:16):
In the sixties we dealt with that here so it hit close to home. So my love, my passion in working with jewelry, I made all the badges for it too. And I did some cool things with the job. I was asked to be a props assistant on there for three different days. I saw Whoopi Goldberg there while I was there. I love doing the stuff on set. You could tell that I’m passionate about it. I’m not just all starstruck or whatever about meeting actors. It’s more about the family that’s there.
Tanya Musgrave (39:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Till has come up several times in my feed, with and without controversy, I would say, the trauma that comes from making these stories. But I think another perspective is that a lot of people of color have found opportunities to collaborate and make something together that … I mean, I know that it’s changing, but sometimes it can be something to have to get through and over as a person of color. I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever come across situations like that or if it was just something that you just never even thought of. I never had to deal with it.
Eric Anthony (40:24):
No. Absolutely. I’m 42 years old and I’m the youngest of five. And so I have a unique and interesting perspective when it comes to the prejudices in the area too. And growing up in the area too, and seeing the development of Snellville where I grew up, and also having the perspective from both my mother and my father. We have a variety of personalities in my own immediate family. I have my sister-in-law, who just recently passed away, was part of a …
Tanya Musgrave (40:56):
I’m sorry.
Eric Anthony (40:57):
… a gay marriage. My sister is a lesbian and she raised a young kid with autism with her wife. And there’s that. There’s all the baggage that came from my sister’s experience growing up being gay in the area. And then my connections with her and the community here in Atlanta with her friends. And then my other sister, she was multicultural multiracial because he wasn’t full black, he was half black. My sister’s marriage in that sense caused a rift in my family as well with my own parents.
Tanya Musgrave (41:28):
Interesting, interesting.
Eric Anthony (41:29):
Yeah, it’s been a weird dynamic when it comes to all the problems that come with that, and it’s so ironic being multiracial myself. Growing up I didn’t consider myself as a race. I just knew that I was different. But I got teased, I got bullied and I gravitated towards my other Asian friends, there were five at my high school. And we’re still friends today. I’m friends with most of them, but it’s vastly different from the nineties to now. And even being a DJ growing up, I started DJing all my other friends’ weddings and it was very funny because if you’re Asian living in Atlanta and you’re going to a wedding, you’re bound to have three or four friends that are at that wedding that you know, that you didn’t even realize you were going to be at the same wedding. And that’s how I did so many spinoff weddings DJing for them. It was fun.
Tanya Musgrave (42:23):
I don’t really think about it that often, to be honest. It’s a very interesting and unique situation to talk with somebody about this who happens to have Asian roots too, because I was adopted by a Caucasian family. So I grew up in rural Virginia and the only Asian on the mountain. And of course there’s only 60 people on the mountain. So it’s very small, very, very southern and that kind of a thing. And it is very much an interesting thing where you can have a soft spot in your heart for the south. Those people watched me grow up and they would defend me to the death. And they’re the camo, deer shooting people that I think that a lot of people will think that there’s a bone to be had. But a lot of the times you’re just like, no. I mean, there’s a unique perspective that comes with knowing intimately both sides and how you can love and have a conversation with both sides and [inaudible 00:43:23] …
Eric Anthony (43:23):
Oh absolutely.
Tanya Musgrave (43:24):
Yeah. I always find it very fascinating to talk to somebody who’s had a similar experience in the south. So thanks for letting me delve into that for a little bit.
Eric Anthony (43:34):
Of course. And it’s neat because I always love hearing … I love it when there’s people like with your experience that have been adopted, because you have an inkling of the culture but you didn’t have it in your immediate family. And so in my case, I had a taste of it, but my dad didn’t teach me how to speak Chinese and …
Tanya Musgrave (43:55):
Me neither, me neither. My parents know it.
Eric Anthony (43:56):
Really?
Tanya Musgrave (43:57):
My white parents know Mandarin. Yeah. Because they’re more Asian than I am.
Eric Anthony (44:01):
That’s funny.
Tanya Musgrave (44:02):
They spent six years over in Taiwan and so …
Eric Anthony (44:05):
That is funny.
Tanya Musgrave (44:06):
They’re teaching me about my culture.
Eric Anthony (44:08):
Wow. Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (44:11):
That kind of a thing too. Yeah, yeah. It’s crazy.
Eric Anthony (44:12):
Yeah. And it is so interesting because we do things, we have family culture, but then there’s also odd, funny, physical … I don’t know if you … Can you Asian squat, do you know how to Asian squat.
Tanya Musgrave (44:25):
Okay. Another hilarious thing. My white brother who’s like six three, he can Asian squat.
Eric Anthony (44:30):
He can Asian squat.
Tanya Musgrave (44:31):
I cannot.
Eric Anthony (44:32):
No way.
Tanya Musgrave (44:33):
I cannot. And I have a bone to pick with that because I saw a thing on TikTok that was specifically talking about femur length, and how there are people who mechanically cannot squat.
Eric Anthony (44:47):
What?
Tanya Musgrave (44:49):
They were talking about the weightlifting culture and everything, because the mechanics of the ratio between their torso and their femur and their shin, their tibial length.
Eric Anthony (44:57):
Wow. No way.
Tanya Musgrave (44:59):
Yes. I would like to just point out that I have a long femur and I claim that as the reason that I cannot Asian squat.
Eric Anthony (45:09):
No way. Wow. Yeah, when I first started working with metal and making things in middle school, I would find myself sitting on the floor, squatting on the floor, working that way. My sisters all remember it too. I mean, I don’t have any pictures of myself doing that. But when I was working with metal and making stuff, making jewelry. Even before that, when I would be playing with my GI Joe’s in elementary school, I would play that way. And I would be out squatting in the mud and the dirt and the same way. And I can still do it. And I often find myself when I’m building props, I’m working on the floor versus setting up and clearing a table because that takes too long. I’m ADHD. I take medicine for it, but it doesn’t always work. And I end up on the floor because there’s more space on the floor. Because all the other surfaces are taken up. Yeah. But yeah, anyways, that’s very interesting.
Tanya Musgrave (46:05):
Yeah. The thing that I wrap up every episode with is what question should I have asked you?
Eric Anthony (46:12):
Maybe the average build time.
Tanya Musgrave (46:15):
Oh, yes.
Eric Anthony (46:16):
You don’t think about how long certain things will take. Yeah, you price things out, but you also have to practice with your speed. And oftentimes when you’re giving an estimate or writing it out and doing a work order, which I learned is different than an estimate just recently, writing out a work order and saying this is how it’s going to cost. You just kind of got to factor in what’s happened in the past and once you are confident that the time it would take to build something. And you got to calculate if you’re going to have to ship it or if you’re going to have to go and pick it up and where it is, what time of the day it is.
(46:56):
Is that place closing for the weekend and you’re not going to be able to do it. Oh, crap, I’ve got to build something. And I promised them it’ll be here on Monday, but the place is closing, and it’s Friday night and the place is not going to open up until Monday morning. So those are those things that can go wrong too, that you have to calculate how long it’s going to take and how long it’s going to take to get in your hands so you can begin.
Tanya Musgrave (47:20):
So rattle off a bullet list of just some basic things like a sword, a dagger, something that you’re starting [inaudible 00:47:27] …
Eric Anthony (47:27):
Oh, that’s so hard. To know how long it takes?
Tanya Musgrave (47:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Anthony (47:31):
Well, it’s just kind of like somebody saying, “Well, I want to buy a car.”
Tanya Musgrave (47:36):
What kind of car?
Eric Anthony (47:37):
Yeah, there’s all different factors.
Tanya Musgrave (47:39):
Okay. Okay. So are you talking about months or weeks or like …
Eric Anthony (47:45):
It can actually take several weeks. I wouldn’t say it takes months. Takes months and potentially years if … I’m doing a commission where I’m building two Mongolian swords and it’s taken me three years. Because the client wants me to make them by hand from start to finish, and unassisted, and on my own time to be my best work ever. And it has been. But I’ve gone through the loss of my mother, the loss of a pet …
Tanya Musgrave (48:11):
Wow, man.
Eric Anthony (48:11):
… during that time, so there’s a … And Covid. So there’s been all kinds of hiccups along the way. So that’s an example of something could take years and that’s just two swords that are 30 inch long swords. But they’re a big, big project. But you also got to know if you’re going to involve anybody else, if you’re going to involve a 3D modeler and a 3D printer, and someone to cast, or someone else to make the rubber or someone else to do finishing, the painting. And I do, I involve as many people as I possibly can, and I reward the people that help me because they reward me by getting the job done at the same time. And it just goes under my banner and my arsenal of friends, people that have equipment, water jet cutting, or special machines, lathes, other kinds of skills. So sourcing out the people that know how to do the things that you can’t do or you don’t have time to do. That’s another important skill.
Tanya Musgrave (49:11):
So, okay. Loved having you on. Where can people find you or follow your work?
Eric Anthony (49:16):
On Facebook, they can find me there. I do have a YouTube channel. I put tutorials on my YouTube channel, but I also do funny silly videos as well. So beware. Product reviews and things like that. Facebook is my primary mode of communication, and on my Facebook page I put my real cell phone number so people can see on my page my contact info. My cell phone, my email. Instagram, and I sometimes do TikTok videos, but that’s it. Mostly Instagram, Facebook.
Tanya Musgrave (49:47):
What are your handles for those?
Eric Anthony (49:48):
I got to look up that … I think it’s @DJEricAnthony, let me see, because my DJ roots. On Facebook, it’s EricAnthonyLeong. On Instagram, DJEricAnthonyAtlanta on Instagram.
Tanya Musgrave (50:03):
So for your Insta, DJEricAnthonyAtlanta?
Eric Anthony (50:03):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (50:08):
Got it. All right.
Eric Anthony (50:09):
I am the only Eric Anthony Leong on Facebook.
Tanya Musgrave (50:15):
Okay. And what’s your website?
Eric Anthony (50:17):
It’s just EricAnthonyProductions with an S.
Tanya Musgrave (50:20):
Dot com?
Eric Anthony (50:21):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (50:22):
All right. Nice. Eric, thanks so much for sharing your experience, your story, and your time. We really appreciate it.
Eric Anthony (50:30):
Absolutely.
Tanya Musgrave (50:31):
If you enjoy this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram, ask us questions and check out more episodes @thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well and God bless, we’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.