Trying to make a film in a different country can bring a unique set of challenges such as language barriers and cultural differences.
This week, Sydney Tooley joins us for part 3 of her journey into making her first feature film. In this episode, she shares her journey to getting into Taiwan, how she connected with the crew, and how she tried to stay true to the culture.
Watch to see how Sydney worked with an international crew, and her next steps to getting her film finished.
Key Points:
1:28 – Getting into Taiwan
2:40 – Filming in Taiwan
17:10 – Biggest Spend
19:18 – Transitioning from student to full-time filmmaker
28:13 – M12:47 – Bridging Cultures
15:00 – Miscommunication
20:49 – Working with producers
22:48 – Staying close to culture
31:51 – Delivery to Studio
Links
Part 1
Part 2
Sonscreen Panel
Sun Moon Film Instagram
Sydney Tooley Instagram
Transcript
Sydney Tooley (00:00):
So a lot of our crew was actually bilingual, which is really helpful. Really helpful. But even then they are bilingual, but that doesn’t mean they’re fluent.
So it is helpful because you can communicate on a basic level, especially within their job. Like sound, you could be like, “Are we good? Did we get a good take?” And he might not be able to speak very well, but he does understand what I’m saying to him. And he’s like, “Yeah, we got it.”
Tanya Musgrave (00:24):
Welcome to The Practical Filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sonscreen Film Festival, where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today.
On today’s show, Sydney Tooley gives us her update on Sun Moon. Her directorial debut, which she just wrapped principal photography in Taiwan. Find the full transcripts and more @thepracticalfilmmaker.com. I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave and we are a day after the festival.
You heard Sydney most likely, on the live panel that we did at Sonscreen Film Festival in our previous episode. But to catch everybody up, she just wrapped up principal production on her directorial debut, Sun Moon that filmed both in Nashville and in Taiwan seven months later, because of COVID we all love that. And she’s here to give us some updates. Sydney.
Sydney Tooley (01:20):
Mm-hmm.
Tanya Musgrave (01:21):
All right. So you get the call, that you’re able to go over there and you go over there, catch us up.
Sydney Tooley (01:28):
I’ll backtrack just to smidge because a lot of people don’t know exactly how you get over there, they think like, “Oh you get a call and you leave.” This is not true. You have to go figure out, how your visas are going to work. They were like, “Well we’re going to get your visas, but we don’t know when and we don’t know how much time you’re going to get, and…” So I drive to Atlanta with the passports, because they’re just sending the passports. I’m like, “Okay.”
So I drive down there. And I make friends with the woman at the immigration office and she and I are talking and I’m like, “Man, I just love Taiwan so much! They have… It’s just everything about it just amazing, this project, da, da.” And by the end of that meeting, they were like, “Well, we think we can do something for you.” And I was like, “Okay, good. Always go in person to me.” Because they, it’s very helpful.
Tanya Musgrave (02:15):
It’s really amazing what can be accomplished when you’re actually standing in front of somebody and waiting for their actual tasks to be done.
Sydney Tooley (02:22):
Yes.
Tanya Musgrave (02:22):
As opposed to an email, always call but even better go in person.
Sydney Tooley (02:26):
Oh yeah. Always go in person because you can really gauge how they feel and then also maybe they’ll like you. Who knows? And so we get that done. Visas come in. I left four days before the rest of the crew, to make sure that our pre-pro was done because we really didn’t have a lot of time in pre-pro, because you’re in quarantine for two weeks. I loved quarantine, except for two days of it.
Tanya Musgrave (02:26):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (02:49):
But quarantine was great because, well first of all, it’s kind of safe because you’re you’re stuck in there.
Tanya Musgrave (02:49):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (02:55):
So production meetings would start at 8:00 AM go till 9:00 PM. Just which, that’s exhausting, but it doesn’t feel real yet? You just feel like you’re standing on the edge of jumping off the cliff because things are moving, because people are making the move, but you haven’t stepped out and actually have to do it yourself and manage all of that.
Tanya Musgrave (03:16):
Yeah. But it’s kind of like forced focus.
Sydney Tooley (03:19):
Yeah, totally. And it was really nice to have that. There were days where I thought I was going to lose my mind. The third day and the eighth day specifically, and the 11th day. Those three days were like, “Ah!” They’re just soul-crushing all of a sudden, you’re like, “I’m trapped in this role, in this box!” It’s more of not even production stuff. It’s… You are doing production stuff, but it’s also like, [crosstalk 00:03:43] “But I’m stuck in a box, I really need to get out.”
And you haven’t seen a human being in two weeks, you haven’t heard a human voice outside of an automated voice through your computer, which you don’t realize what toll that takes when you can’t hear someone. Luckily our crew could kind of see and hear each other out the windows. So we would, every morning be like, “Are you guys okay down there? Okay good. All right, cool. I’m okay.” And then I go like, “I’m not okay, but they don’t know. It’s fine.”
Tanya Musgrave (04:07):
So after quarantine, you guys hit the ground running.
Sydney Tooley (04:10):
Mm-hmm. We get out early and we go back to the school and I have initial meetings with the school. My parents were heavily involved with the production of this. Yeah, my parents live there.
So my dad essentially controls the campus more or less financially, so he’s in a high position. So he’s actually really important to the whole thing, also both parents were just every day I’d be like, “Dad, I need coffee.” And he’d be like, “Okay.” And he’d show up so that I could have some sort of, something to keep going.
Tanya Musgrave (04:10):
Good dad.
Sydney Tooley (04:43):
I know. And a lot of people don’t know, but he had a heart attack right before we went.
Tanya Musgrave (04:48):
Oh my gosh.
Sydney Tooley (04:48):
So in Thanksgiving and had two heart surgeries. And so it was really crazy going over there and being like, “He’s still alive. Okay.” So there’s all that-
Tanya Musgrave (04:58):
So you haven’t seen him.
Sydney Tooley (04:59):
I hadn’t seen him in two years, plus he had just had this heart attack and it had, a bunch of heart surgeries and it was really scary. And so there’s a lot of emotion, coming into it being like, “My dad’s still here.”
Tanya Musgrave (05:12):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (05:13):
And also it was just really exciting to have him on production days and being able to be there while I was directing my first features so that was really cool.
Tanya Musgrave (05:21):
That’s really special.
Sydney Tooley (05:22):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (05:22):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (05:23):
And he made everything run with my mom. My mom also made everything run, both of them just every day.
Tanya Musgrave (05:29):
So family affair. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (05:30):
So we start working on the campus, we have a meeting with the school. They’re like, “We have the schedule, we know everything is going good.” And I’m like, “Okay.”
Tanya Musgrave (05:39):
So how many days did you have in between, quarantine and actual, the start of principal?
Sydney Tooley (05:44):
We had, about five days. Three of those were without the rest of the crew. We got out on a Friday and we started on Wednesday.
Tanya Musgrave (05:52):
The whole production was how long? I think…
Sydney Tooley (05:55):
18 days in Taiwan, and then there were six days in America.
Tanya Musgrave (05:59):
We were talking after we had the panel. I think we were just texting, were at the hotel and you were just like, “This is kind of helping me start to process everything.”
Sydney Tooley (06:11):
You have to take into consideration before even production, because everybody on production’s like, “These three weeks were amazing!” And all of everybody’s crying and just beautiful but nobody really thinks about the four years of doing this.
From conception and writing every day, and two years of polishing and then COVID pausing everything, and then maybe we’re going to go. And then on top of it, you have the political climate right now where it’s like, “Is there going to be a war in Taiwan? Is China going to come over? And can we go over there?” And then mid production, you have the Russia-Ukraine conflict. So now everybody’s panicking because you are in, what could be a war zone at this point.
And so all of that is a lot to process. And then you get to wrap and everyone’s like, “Yes! It’s exciting, call wrap!” And I call wrap and I just had a full meltdown, because it’s four years, just slaps you in the face and you’re like, “What do I do with this?” And I have to go into post, still but I’ve accomplished this thing, but you can’t, the weight of it. It just sinks on top of you. I’ve just… All of this stuff, you’ve been carrying-
Tanya Musgrave (07:22):
Relief? Or when you say weight.
Sydney Tooley (07:25):
Maybe some relief to be like, “I did it.”
Tanya Musgrave (07:25):
Precious.
Sydney Tooley (07:28):
But at the same time, it’s just you’re like, “Yes. I did it. Yey.” But also I’m like, “This is so beautiful.” But at the same time, it’s just like, “Now, how do I process the last four years of doing this?” And my life’s work for this long is not done, but it’s not, you can’t comprehend what you just did. You’re just grinding.
Tanya Musgrave (07:49):
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (07:50):
So one thing my actress told me that was really helpful throughout the project. Because to me, I’m just making things. I don’t really think about the scope of things. I’m just doing it, because you have to get it done. And she’d be like, “Remember how big it is, remember the scope. You’re in a foreign country, you’re working with three languages, you’re working with three teams. It’s an international. It’s your first. You’re working with a cast of over 20 people. It’s a lot.”
Tanya Musgrave (08:14):
It is.
Sydney Tooley (08:15):
And it was helpful to put into perspective on days where I was like, “This is really hard.” She was like “Of course, it’s hard.”
Tanya Musgrave (08:21):
Yes.
Sydney Tooley (08:22):
So it was helpful to hear like, “Remember the scope of your project.” And you don’t want to think about it all the time because you’re like, “That is a lot.”
Tanya Musgrave (08:29):
Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (08:30):
By the end you just, you don’t know how to start processing what you just finished. And post is, its whole other beast, which we haven’t started yet. But it’s been healing to be here to be able to talk about like, “Here’s my perspectives and my take on everything.” Because when you’re directing, it’s not about you, it’s about making sure your crew and your cast and everybody’s okay.
And they’re looking to you as this leader to carry them through and there’s a lot of them. You have over 40, 50 people that you’re carrying. And my job is not to be like, “Here’s how I feel about everything.” It’s to just, make sure that it’s moving. And so to be able to say like, “Well here’s actually what I was going through.” That I can’t really tell anybody has been really helpful to let it go a little bit.
Tanya Musgrave (09:20):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You say 40 to 50 people. What was the biggest set that you had run before that? Was that-
Sydney Tooley (09:25):
No. Is this the biggest team or is there… I think this one was probably the most amount of people, but not by a big stretch because I had done theater shows that had a lot of people in them.
Tanya Musgrave (09:25):
All right.
Sydney Tooley (09:39):
So running teams that big. But one thing I find to be really important is to know everybody’s name and to talk to all of the crew-
Tanya Musgrave (09:39):
Oh my stars.
Sydney Tooley (09:47):
… members. So I actually knew everybody’s name-
Tanya Musgrave (09:51):
Nice.
Sydney Tooley (09:52):
… on the set. I knew a little bit about them. I would make it a point-
Tanya Musgrave (09:56):
All to the Taiwanese crew.
Sydney Tooley (09:56):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (09:57):
Everybody. Wow.
Sydney Tooley (09:58):
Go talk to gaffers. I’d always sidle up to people that would be like, “You’re talking to me?” I’m like, “Well, yeah.” Because our sound guys or our people who are just kind of, or our PAs, it’s really important because those people are, they do a lot of work and just knowing somebody’s name, that’s huge.
Tanya Musgrave (10:19):
I think it’s going to speak huge to them too. It really does go a long way.
Sydney Tooley (10:22):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (10:22):
The interesting thing is that, you never know where that is going to lead and yes, that’s the strategy part of it. But I think there’s something intrinsic within all of us, that is just acknowledgement and gratitude.
It’s something that, yes it’s nice to receive, but it’s very important to give as a leader because it reminds us that it’s not just our project, it’s something that’s important on both sides to both give and receive.
Sydney Tooley (10:50):
I think it plays a lot into the intercultural part of it.
Tanya Musgrave (10:54):
Especially. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (10:55):
Because you’re working with Taiwanese and their culture is different. Their culture is very much in saving face and making sure [crosstalk 00:11:05].
Tanya Musgrave (11:05):
Very much. Very much so.
Sydney Tooley (11:07):
And I know this coming in, which is really helpful because instead of fully being unaware of what people are thinking like, “I know that they think like this.” Even if, they’re kind of more westernized in a way. I know that they need to hear that they’re doing a good job.
Tanya Musgrave (11:23):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (11:23):
And most people do, but in this case it was more like our gaffers had never actually worked on a film. They’d done a lot, but they hadn’t done film work and they were so happy to be there. Just shooting, creating narrative work, which was so fun.
But I’d go up to them and they played a really big part for me mentally. So I always go back to like, “The gaffers.” Because every day they’d come off just so happy and it would always bring me up again. They’d be like, “Okay. The gaffers are happy. They’re just carrying stuff around all day.”
But I would talk, you go talk to them and be like, “Hey this is really, really good.” And they’d be like, “Really?” I’m like, “Yeah. I would bring you to America to do this.” They’re like, “Really?” I’m like, “Yes.” But it’s small little compliments that are like, “You’re doing a good job.” Or specific things like, “You do really well at doing this.”
And that tells them like, “I’m not just thinking of you as a crew, I see you as a human being and I am interested in what you are doing. And also here to tell you, you are doing a really good job.” And in this culture specifically it was really helpful because then they’re like, “Oh, I’m good at this. I was hired to do this job.” And they’ll work even harder. And when we do get to really tough points where I’m like, “This is really hard and I’m really sorry, but I’m going to ask you to do this anyway.” And they’re like, “Okay.”
Tanya Musgrave (12:42):
So fun fact. In Mandarin, I don’t know if it’s the same for Taiwanese, but in Mandarin there is actually not a word for no.
Sydney Tooley (12:49):
Yes.
Tanya Musgrave (12:50):
The closest that you can come is, I don’t want that.
Sydney Tooley (12:55):
Yep.
Tanya Musgrave (12:56):
It’s more a yes, yes, yes that will happen and then it won’t.
Sydney Tooley (13:00):
Right, right, right.
Tanya Musgrave (13:00):
You know that kind of thing?
Sydney Tooley (13:00):
Yes. Yes.
Tanya Musgrave (13:01):
And so having to bridge these intercultural communications is fun. So did you have a personal translator or did you have more of like a first AD? I think you had mentioned something that in the panel.
Sydney Tooley (13:13):
Yeah. So a lot of our crew was actually bilingual, which is really helpful. Really helpful. But even then they are bilingual, but that doesn’t mean they’re fluent.
So it is helpful because you can communicate on a basic level, especially within their job. Like sound, you could be like, “Are we good? Did we get a good take?” And he might not be able to speak very well, but he does understand what I’m saying to him. And he’s like, “Yeah, we got it.” Or he like, “This is bad.” Our sound guy was hilarious. The two of us eye contact across the room and he’d be like, “No.” And I’m like, “Don’t just let it go.” And would be like, “Just stay there.” I’m like, “It’s okay.” And he’s like, “Ugh.” He’s so funny.
I find that even with, the language barrier humans communicate like humans. I mean you can communicate a lot without language. My AD was my primary translator, specifically for our student actors because most crew, there were certain crew members that I’d be like, “Go tell them what I said.” Because they didn’t speak as well but our kid cast or our full student cast, most of them spoke okay but not well.
So if I would say I would give them a direction and they’d be like, “Okay, okay, okay.” And then I’d be like, “Are you sure?” And they’re be like, “Mm-hmm” And then we’d run the scene and they’d do it exactly the same. I’m like, “You don’t get it.” I’m like, “Okay.” So finally I just, with the AD just in general to blanket.
Tanya Musgrave (14:39):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (14:39):
I would say, “I’m going to say a direction you are going to repeat it. Okay?” And this is how we would do it because even if they understand now it’s clarified, that where our communication’s fully open. It has been clarified in English and Mandarin to everyone. So everyone gets it, both American and Taiwanese teams.
Tanya Musgrave (14:59):
So this naturally brings up kind of the things that can go wrong.
Sydney Tooley (15:05):
I know there was one day where again, our gaffers, I loved our gaffers man, but I can’t understand a lot of the problems that happened within those teams because they’re in Mandarin, and the AD had already fixed them. Bless his heart.
Tanya Musgrave (15:20):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (15:20):
So at the end of the day he’d be like, “Yeah, this was rough.” And I’m like, “It was not rough.” He’s was like, “But it was, but you don’t know that.” And I’m like, “Exactly.” But our gaffers, I know one day there was a miscommunication with what we were doing, because we hadn’t quite gotten the system down. So they lit one thing and we were like, “No, we’re going back.” and even with the DP, sometimes I’d be like, “We’re staying here.” And somehow I wasn’t clear a lot of it. I’ll take responsibility for it because it’s my set that I’m running and I’m like, “Oh my bad.”
So they’re like, “We got to relight this scene again.” And the gaffers would be like, “Argh!” And then come back up and they light it. But there was one day where they lit something and tore it down and then we had to switch scenes around, because of something he back up and light it again and then we’d be like, “Oh, we’re not lighting up there.”
A lot of their gears going up and down three stories because we’re on the third floor of this school. And I definitely was like, “You guys are doing a good job.” And they were like, “Okay.” And then they were fine. But a lot of the blunders we had, as far as miscommunicating, were things that surprisingly you would normally have, within teams running.
It’s just people, either thinking they know what you’re going to say already and they just do things, which you can’t do that or me thinking I had communicated well. And it really helps, as a first timer is just like “Oh. I can do this better.” Okay and you mess up and you kick yourself a little bit and you’re like, “Ugh.” And you’re like. “Okay, I’ll do it better tomorrow.” And then you just learn as you go.
Every day is extremely intense bootcamp. You’ve done this for a while, but every day you’re being hit with so much information. And not only are you running creatively, but you’re also like, “Ooh, I can adjust here and here and here and here.” And every day is just massive amounts of new information that you’re trying to process and put places and apply again, so your next day is better. And I think really importantly, for people who are first timers to know, is you’re going to mess up. It’s going to feel really bad. Just make the adjustments and move on because your team probably knows you’re a first timer and it’s okay. And there’s grace for you there.
Tanya Musgrave (17:27):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (17:28):
You don’t know how much power you have as director, but took me a minute to realize if I was like, “I don’t really like this.” Everybody be like, “Oh no! The director’s unhappy. How do we fix it?” And I was like, “Well, that’s cool.” I mean, I’m not going to lord it over you, but it was the first time that I was… It took me a really long time to come into owning the set myself, because we know America was really tough and I walked off pretty defeated.
And then coming into Taiwan, I was like, “Oh no, I’m going to change everything that happened here. I’m going to change it and go over there.” But it’s finding the dynamic between where do you belong. You are the head, you’re driving it. But then you are dealing with producers and with studios and with execs. And how do you do what they want? And how do you take those voices out of your head? Because ultimately… Unless they’re like, “Something is really horribly wrong and on fire.” It doesn’t matter, because they’ve hired you to be the leader.
So if I had to really step back and think like, “Okay, I need to do what I feel is right in this situation.” Of course, there’s people looking over your shoulder being like… Everybody thinks that they’re the director at some point.
Tanya Musgrave (18:44):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (18:44):
So fighting for that status and holding it, was tough. But unless I do something horribly wrong, that is not going to work, which didn’t really happen. That you have to take those voices out of your head and be like, “They hired me to do this.”
And that was something one of the execs told me at the beginning, from Sony was like, “You’re the captain. Of course, you have admirals. I’m an admiral. Steve’s an admiral, everybody’s an admiral but you are the one on the ship actually guiding the ship in the middle of the war you’re in, and that’s your job. And we are not there to micromanage you. We’re there to make sure that your ship doesn’t necessarily go down or you make a strategic bad move that brings your whole ship down.” So that was really hard for me to come to terms with, at some points.
Tanya Musgrave (19:35):
Yeah. Well, I’m curious how this is going to age, if you listen to this in five, 10 years after directing, or even if an experienced director is listening to this and being like, “Oh honey.”
Sydney Tooley (19:47):
I know, right. I’m like, “Someone’s going to be like, ‘That’s not how it is.'”
Tanya Musgrave (19:50):
Oh honey. Or just within that political dynamic of with execs, having been a producer now and working with a director. It’s so funny, you have that typical push and pull of just like, “We spent money on this, we want to see it!”
Sydney Tooley (20:06):
Yeah. Yes, yes.
Tanya Musgrave (20:07):
And so I get that side of things and then you have the director, who thankfully has a vision of what they want, but if it doesn’t include those things that you spent money on, you’re just like, “Well the budget, the budget, the budget!”
When a sailboat is tacking, it’s producers, directors, producers, directors, but you know what, at the end, if you can end up at your destination, then it’s somewhere near the island that you are aiming for, then I think it’s a win. But you don’t know how long it’s going to be in one direction and kind of changing that power from the tack from left to right. To left to right.
Sydney Tooley (20:42):
Yeah. Sure.
Tanya Musgrave (20:44):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (20:44):
I try to be as conscious of what producer’s jobs are as well. So I’m really budget conscious as far as like, “Can I do this thing? I want to do this thing.” But if the producer comes back to me and is like, “We can’t afford it, find a different way.” I’m like, “Cool.” That’s a whole new problem and challenge and-
Tanya Musgrave (21:03):
And that’s creative challenge for you.
Sydney Tooley (21:04):
… it’s going to creatively add something. In this project, there were definitely scenes that were brought back into it, that I was like, “I’m not a fan of this scene.” But this was a studio thing that was like, “We need to see this.” And the studio was like, “You’re going to shoot this.” And I’m like, “I don’t want to shoot it because I don’t like it.” But you have to find a way to be like, “Okay.”
Regardless of whether I like it or not, I’m going to make it look the best that it can because it’s not about me, it’s about if I, I guess half-ass the scene. It’s going to make the rest of my movie look bad. And that just hurts me and the studios and… So being aware, I think, you could flex if you want to and be like, “I want this thing.” But that really isn’t collaborative and it doesn’t help anyone to do that.
And so when studios or my producers or anybody come to me and say, “Hey, I think we need to do this.” Then I’ll be like, “Well, what if we do it this way?” Or collaborate with them. And am I extremely happy? Not necessarily. But I’m not going to, it’s like, “You have to do this.” “Okay, cool. Fine. Then let’s do it.”
Tanya Musgrave (22:19):
They are specifically business oriented on a bottom line. And in a lot of ways, it’s just that they could care less about any hard, but is it going to sell? And I mean, honestly, if it sells, then it works.
Sydney Tooley (22:34):
Right. Right. That was something-
Tanya Musgrave (22:36):
It’s like Hallmark.
Sydney Tooley (22:37):
Yeah. Well that was one of those things where, I was writing this thing and it has some romance in it. And I wanted to stay really true culturally. And so this is another thing where it comes in and we’re working in a culture. The movie, the script is very cultural. It’s sticking very true to Taiwan and how those people are in the culture and within that.
And so, one of the things we really had to go back and forth on, was that romantic interest throughout because they’d be like, “Well, he’s going to run in here and do this.” And I’m like, “No, no, no, no. No. He would never do that because that’s culturally incorrect and it doesn’t work.” And so there were a lot of moments where I would push back being like, “I know that this is something that you want to do because it works. And you’ve seen it work in other things, but this won’t work in this culture because that’s not correct.”
And so in a lot of ways, they’re really respectful of that, when I was like, “This isn’t culturally correct,” And they were like, “Okay” and I would come in with an alternative like, “Here’s more and how do I give enough to hook?” Because you’re trying to hook American audiences while staying culturally true.
Tanya Musgrave (23:48):
Yeah. But you’re also wanting to market. Didn’t you say your main market that you’re wanting to aim for is the Asian market?
Sydney Tooley (23:53):
Yeah. I would love to. The movie to me, was always my love letter to Taiwan. So ultimately I made it for Taiwan, for Taiwan used to be able to watch and feel proud of their culture. And as an American looking in, being like, “I love this culture.” It’s just not been seen a lot. And I wanted to be really authentic to it.
There is one scene, that I pushed back on. If you live there… And I won’t say which scene because the people there will know. Our Americans will probably not know honestly, but it was one of those scenes where you’re filming it and your entire crew is like, “This would never happen.” And I’m like, “You guys, I know it wouldn’t happen. Okay. But the studio says, I have to do it this way.”
In one sense of it. You’re like, “I’m trying to play to an American audience as well to make sure that they…” So then make a sufficiently like, “Enough drama.” For them to be like, “Oh my gosh!” But also you have your crew being like, “This is ridiculous.” And you’re like, “I know it is.” But you’re trying to also save your own face while shooting it. And reassuring them like, “I understand culturally this is not, America will not, and they need this.” And trying to make them understand while shooting it so that you don’t lose face as misappropriating what would happen.
And there was one scene that where I did push back, but ultimately I accepted it because I think it will play to American audiences. The Taiwanese audience will watch it and be like, “This is hilarious.” I’m a little worried about that. But I can’t please all the cultures. I don’t think.
Tanya Musgrave (25:45):
Yeah. Well. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (25:47):
I’ve tried.
Tanya Musgrave (25:48):
Yeah. Is there anything else that you actually want to remember? What’s your next deadline then.
Sydney Tooley (25:52):
May 16th we deliver our first rough cut.
Tanya Musgrave (25:54):
What?
Sydney Tooley (25:55):
Yeah. Two studios. Meaning it’s not just, you don’t have the time to do just rough assemblies, you know it isn’t going to look good. You have to give the studio something that looks even somewhat polished because you only get three shots at this. I get two rough cuts and picture lock and that’s it. There is… So the turnaround on post is really intense.
Tanya Musgrave (26:16):
Wow.
Sydney Tooley (26:17):
So I-
Tanya Musgrave (26:18):
With music and everything too?
Sydney Tooley (26:20):
Picture lock. No. That luckily. No.
Tanya Musgrave (26:20):
Oh my gosh.
Sydney Tooley (26:23):
I’m worried about just editing a full length feature film.
Tanya Musgrave (26:27):
Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (26:28):
To… Because normally you could be like, “Here’s kind of my roughest rough.”
Tanya Musgrave (26:32):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (26:33):
And then I get-
Tanya Musgrave (26:34):
[crosstalk 00:26:34] assembled.
Sydney Tooley (26:34):
Yeah. Here you go. And this is a rough, but a polished rough, because then we have about three weeks, I think. And then it’s second cut with all of their notes implemented. And that one’s got to be sharp. And then we have a month before full picture lock is due.
And that timeframe is totally doable. But when sometimes if I look at it like that, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, there is so much to do. Ooh!” And it has to have a certain quality because you’re not just, you’re sending it to Sony. You have to…
Tanya Musgrave (27:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (27:12):
And luckily, bless our footage. Taiwan is stunning. The location is stunning. Our actors are on point. And so even if I turned in a rough, I’m not as worried about like, “I know there’s going to be a dark night of the soul coming up.” But I’m not as worried about being like, “My rough cut is just horrible.” Because even the raw footage, is there’s so much to work with. It’s beautiful.
Tanya Musgrave (27:39):
And they’ll see that. They see lots of roughs on yes, and so.
Sydney Tooley (27:42):
Oh yeah. Totally.
Tanya Musgrave (27:42):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (27:43):
But you only get two takes and then your picture locking, which that to me is like, “Ah!” And it’s scary because you have to finalize and once you do, it’s locked in forever.
Tanya Musgrave (27:54):
May, when you say May 16, that’s four, five weeks away.
Sydney Tooley (28:00):
Five weeks away.
Tanya Musgrave (28:01):
Five weeks away.
Sydney Tooley (28:02):
Yeah. And currently where it stands, it’s not assembled in any form. So it’s being built from the ground up starting on Monday.
Tanya Musgrave (28:12):
Dang! Okay. So no, editors weren’t working kind of-
Sydney Tooley (28:12):
No.
Tanya Musgrave (28:16):
Okay. All right.
Sydney Tooley (28:16):
Not between the times we’ve… Which in future, I think that will be something that I’m really like, “We need to lock that down.” Because it’s-
Tanya Musgrave (28:26):
Oh 100%.
Sydney Tooley (28:27):
… it’s stressful right now being like, “Ooh, you’re on the edge of post.” And so it’s hard because it’s so close to, you want to have time to process it. You have these massive deadlines that are due.
Tanya Musgrave (28:39):
Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (28:39):
And when do you process?
Tanya Musgrave (28:42):
Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Tooley (28:42):
And so it’s been nice to be at Sonscreen to be able to just, talk about what happened and the experiences and kind of air it out a little bit, because I will go directly into an edit bay and not see light for two months and hopefully not lose my mind in there.
But there is a level of, you start thinking like, “Okay.” Your brain can’t let you celebrate at all because you’re not done and you have to grind and you have to stay in that grind mode and on top of it, you have to be willing out the gate to kill the darlings that come.
Tanya Musgrave (29:20):
Yeah. Absolutely yeah.
Sydney Tooley (29:20):
And so I don’t have time to be like, “But this scene.” I have to be brutal when I’m chopping and I’ve already started mentally preparing to think creatively on one side. But if it has to be chopped out, we chop it out. And that’s fine.
So I don’t give myself any grace in that area, if we have to chop it out… If there is something where I’m like, “No, this is… We are not cutting this.” Then I will put my foot down. But if it comes down to like, “This is a really hard decision.” Then we make that decision quickly.
Tanya Musgrave (29:50):
Good. Good. I mean, and honestly this is a stage for that. So how can we follow this journey?
Sydney Tooley (29:58):
Oh man. I-
Tanya Musgrave (30:00):
Besides listening to this podcast.
Sydney Tooley (30:01):
Of course, of course.
Tanya Musgrave (30:02):
This awesome podcast.
Sydney Tooley (30:03):
No, I love this podcast. It helps me so much because I’m like, “There’s other people out there.”
Tanya Musgrave (30:09):
There are, there are.
Sydney Tooley (30:10):
Yeah. I mean, I’m going to try to be more active on social medias on Instagram. Being here’s where I’m at, because I am trying to be more real about the, how this journey goes because people think that in one sense, they’re like, “Filmmaking is so glamorous.” And I’m like, “Oh no.” Everybody’s like, “We want to be a director.” And I’m like, “But do you?” Because it’s not-
Tanya Musgrave (30:35):
Do you, really?
Sydney Tooley (30:35):
… glamorous. It’s really fun. But it is really, really, really hard and I know everybody’s like, “Well, everybody says that.” But until you’ve really felt the… It’s excruciating. It is and I-
Tanya Musgrave (30:48):
Because you also get all the blame too.
Sydney Tooley (30:52):
Oh yeah. Totally. Everything that goes wrong, it’s you. And you just have to own it because otherwise nothing will happen. And I hate the blame game. Anybody on set, who’s like, “Well, this person did it. It’s not my fault.” I’m like, “Then I did it and you’re just going to move on because I don’t have time for you to go figuring out who did it. I don’t care who did it wrong, just fix it.”
Tanya Musgrave (31:10):
Yeah. Let’s move. Let’s move to a solution based approach here.
Sydney Tooley (31:14):
Yeah. And one of the big themes throughout shooting that I was really appreciative of, because we were looking, working with Luke Cameron at Stone Soup Productions in Taiwan and his production company. And he was just so amazing because he has all this energy and he’s always… And you’d come to him and be like, “This is a really big problem.” And he’d be like, “Okay.”
We’re just fixing, we’re just solving problems. That’s what we’re doing. Everything is just solving a problem. And he was so positive about just everything that happened, even the biggest things or things that seemed really dark or unattainable. He was always that light that came in and was like, “It’s okay. We’re just going to solve problems.”
Tanya Musgrave (31:56):
Nice.
Sydney Tooley (31:57):
And I love that mentality of we’re just solving problems. It’s not going to destroy us. It’s not going to be the end of the world. It’s just, here’s a problem, how do I fix it? And how do I fix it quickly? I love that mentality because it keeps everything from becoming a blame game or becoming a really negative experience for everybody because it doesn’t matter. It’s just its own thing that needs to be fixed.
So I really appreciated him throughout the process because he just… And he’s just, “That man can just go!” I’d be like, “Luke, are you really tired?” He’s like, “Yeah, but it’s fine.” And continue on and I’m like, “What an inspiration.”
Tanya Musgrave (32:43):
Well, we can’t wait to get the next check in and see how you’re doing, see how the project’s progressing. And thanks so much for being on the show.
Sydney Tooley (32:50):
Absolutely happy to be here.
Tanya Musgrave (32:52):
All right.
Sydney Tooley (32:52):
Thank you for documenting the journey. It’s been very helpful. It is amazing to have a platform to be like, “Listen to me talk about my life and my experiences.”
Tanya Musgrave (33:02):
Welcome to the practical therapist.
Sydney Tooley (33:02):
Yes! It is therapy. I was like, “Oh good. It’s not my week for therapy. Okay, I’ll just go to Tanya. Tanya will therapize me. I’ll be able to air it all out and be okay for two more days.”
Tanya Musgrave (33:18):
We can’t wait. If you enjoyed this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram. Ask us questions and check out more episodes @thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well and God bless. We’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.