Easily make your way on set to become a PA.
This week, BJ Pasinger shares tips he used to get on set to become a PA. In this episode BJ shares how he got started as a PA, networking as an introvert, and how it’s okay to make mistakes.
BBJ’s resume includes STARZ “Vida”, HBO’s “Insecure”, and Netflix’s “Never Have I Ever.”
Listen to this guide on how you can become a PA in Hollywood.
Show Links:
Julio Zepeda Episode
Lucas Tanaka Episode
Korey Pollard Episode
Raul Martin Romero Episode
Final Draft
Surveillance Headset
Run A Better Set
BJ Pasinger Instagram
BJ Pasinger Twitter
Key Points:
1:39 – How did he get started
10:10 – Difference in day playing and getting staffed
18:47 – Working on mental health
21:57 – Starting out as a PA
28:04 – 10 years to get started
30:41 – Biggest surprise when getting started
33:50 – Strategies for moving to a writing gig
35:41 – Using Twitter for Advice
37:39 – Changing scripts on set
39:35 – Cues on what works & what doesn’t when writing
51:22 – Future projects
Full Transcript:
I was like, oh, my God, I’m going to be fired forever. I was dead flying on euphoria and we were on the Sony lot. Zendaya I had to she had to go do some ADR in another part of the lot.
And I had never I had never really been to the Sony lot before. They explained how to get there. But if you’ve ever been on the Sony lot, I drove Zendaya over. I got like halfway there. And then I was like, I think I’m going the right way.
And she’s like, so yeah, I think it’s over there. I was like, oh, my God, I lost one of the most famous people on the planet.
Welcome to the practical filmmaker and educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival, where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today. On today’s show, B.J. Passenger gives us an inside look into the art of breaking into Hollywood.
By way of paying and lessons he’s learned along his way to becoming a writer. Find the full transcripts and more at the practical filmmaker icon. I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave. And today we have B.J. Pasinger who’s been making his way in L.A. for the past six years, working steadily as a P.A. on the universal backlot on shows
like Home and Family on NBC commercials, and most recently, HBO’s Insecure. Before I welcome into the show, just a slight disclaimer technical flub on my part. A setting got flipped on zoom, so it actually didn’t record through my mic.
So I apologize for your ear today. You’ll have to muster through listening to slightly cruddy audio on my part. But B.J. comes through fantastically loud and clear, without further ado. B.J. Pasinger.
Hey, Tanya.
Nice to be here. Hey. So I want you to set the stage for us. How did you get where you are right now?
Well, I guess the the catalyst really began with my friend Julio, who I think has been a guest on the podcast. We’re leaving work at home and family, and this show is shooting right next to us. And Julio was like, man, I’m tired of like doing all this extra stuff.
Like I shouldn’t have to do some of this stuff. And then he’s like, I’m going to go talk to somebody over at that shoot and give them my resume. And he went and just talked to this guy. And the guy was like, oh, yeah, here, let me get your number.
And then he was like, I’m going to pass your name on to the show. If they hit you up, just tell them you worked with me on blah, blah, blah, so-and-so show. And Julio did that. And then he got a job.
He was de playing on Animal Kingdom, and then things started kind of tracking for him. And then after a little bit, after about a year and a half of him pestering me like, are you going to quit home and family or not?
You don’t want to be there. And, you know, and he’s my he’s my friend, like he’s one of those friends. It’s always like we’ll just call you on your B.S. Almost as if he feels if he feels like you’re not living up to your potential, he’s a good friend.
What’s wrong? He’s like, what’s wrong with you? Yeah. And you’ll be like you’re like, oh, and. But then. Yeah. So finally I quit and it was terrifying. I quit January of 2018, so I was basically almost a full two years after working at home and family almost five days a week, consistently getting a paycheck.
Steady. Yeah. Getting a paycheck every Friday is one of those things where it’s like it’s a steady paycheck. But I wasn’t going to be meeting any of the people that were trying to do the same things that I was doing.
I was meeting other people that also didn’t want to be at Hallmark or be in that part of the industry. But other than that, I wasn’t really meeting anyone that could kind of pivot me in towards narrative work.
Gotcha. Yeah. And then so I had about two months of just being at home. I was doing random little commercials here and there for one of my college friends, Lucas, who was like a producer over at NBC.
Yeah, Lucas Tanaka was actually on the show, too.
But so I was kind of dipping into my savings and doing that here and there. And then like right the first week of March, Julio texted me and said, hey, I just got staffed on this show. Insecure they are.
They’re going to need some additional pay. Was probably this first week. I think I can get you on. And I was like, all right, cool. And then he was like, just just don’t screw up and make me look bad.
And I was like, all right, I’ll do my. And then so I got over to Insecure. I had Dave played on other random narrative shows here and there, like while I was at home and family, just the random little gigs that Julio could throw me.
And I would just like scramble last. I can’t sometimes I would call in sick to take off from home and family. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, yeah. The first day ended up, you know, I got put on lock up. So just keeping people out of the shots, keeping people quiet when they’re rolling.
Stuff like that. They liked me, so they kept bringing me back here and there. And then the other big thing that I got put on, like the first or second day that I was at Insecure, I got put in charge of getting breakfast for cast and.
All right. Other higher ups. Yeah, I would get a couple of days a week on Insecure. It would vary anywhere from two to five days. And I had a couple weeks where I just didn’t get any work from them at all.
But that went on from March until the beginning of June. Twenty eighteen. But over the course of that time, I was organically I was able to develop a relationship with the second second A.D. His name’s James James Chestnut.
I was always one of the was that I was just I didn’t want to get accused of trying to milk the clock or anything like that rap side. Always ask him a lot. They did a lot of location shoots that that season.
And so our base camp was at the forum in Inglewood a lot. And we we also did a lot of night shoots and sometimes like Friday nights. So it’d be it’d be six thirty in the morning on a Saturday and be like, oh, man, I’ve been on the clock for like 15 hours, almost an hour, and be
like, I hope that I won’t be mad at me. Like I don’t want them to think that I’m trying to like just milk the clock or anything. And I go out to James like, hey, man, I’ve been on the clock for a while, like like do I need to go home or anything like that?
And he put his hand on. He put his hand on my shoulder and stay with me, bro. And you’re like, I, James, I got you, man, whatever you need. And that was he was one of those people that see it.
And I because I would get breakfast for him pretty frequently. So I memorized his breakfast order at the time. Yeah. Eggs. Two slices of bacon, toast and avocado.
Yep. There you go.
But, you know, James and James ended up being like a really good person for me to know, because that summer, right after Insecure ended, I went to Africa for like two weeks with my college roommate. And right when I got back, I just reached out to James like, hey, I’m back in town, blah, blah, blah.
And he had just got on this magie movie Rim of the World, and he was able to get me on there. So Premiere the world pretty much helped pay my bills for about a month and a half. And then at the beginning of August, I got a random text from this person and said, hey, I got your
contact information from Julio. I’m on this show called Evita. We’re looking to interview some Piaf’s. Would you like to come in and interview? And I said, yeah, sure. That’d be great. I got to the interview and the key second A.D. and the first A.D., Sally and Aaron, they introduce themselves, blah, blah, blah.
The first thing they said was, so we understand you speak fluent Spanish. My eyes were wide and I was like, oh, I don’t speak Spanish like really at all. And then they looked at each other and they looked at me and they laughed and then just said, it’s OK.
We don’t speak Spanish even. It’s not a job requirement. It’s helpful, but it’s not a job requirement. And I was like, OK, sure. They’re looking at my references and stuff. They knew one ad that I had day played for here and there while I was still at home and family that I met through Julio, they saw her
name and like, oh, you know, Alex, oh, we love Alex. And then they saw James’s name. And James had paid for them when they were first lady when like when they were 18 and they said, oh, you know, James, oh, we love James.
Yeah. So I essentially I got hired to be the waukee. So I was in charge of keeping up with every single waukee that the production rented and distributed. And I had to keep up with those for the two and a half, three months that the show ran.
And it was a good time. It was a great learning experience.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then after Vida was
I went and De played on Euphoria. OK, James had gone over to Euphoria and then Alex, another Adobe that I had worked for before as a day player. She was over there. And then sadly, my first lady from Vida was also a first lady over there.
Where are you right now? What is what does the life look like right now?
Ooh, well, right now I’m back today playing. I staffed two shows back to back. I staffed HBO’s Generation and November 2019 and I went on March twenty, twenty or twenty twenty one. And then I went and finished out insecure.
I was the background P.A. on both of those shows, and Insecure ended the first like June 14th, I think. Yeah, something like that. And then I went home for two weeks and then I was kind of day playing here and there.
I spent I spent a week like on a secret movie that I signed in India. So I can’t I can’t say. There’s some some Oscar winners are involved. Yes, and there and then I’ve been and then I’ve been davlin, you see.
OK, all right, neys. OK. So for the people who are literally just just starting out, the difference between day playing and getting staffed, what is the pivot point there?
Well, honestly, it’s kind of the luck of the draw, unfortunately, because it just it one, it is always about who you know, which is always helpful. Like I said, when I got hired for Vaida, I happened to know two people that those aides worked with a lot that they loved, which was very helpful.
And sometimes it’s just personal preference, because I know a lot of people that have been paying for several years and they just don’t like to staff anymore. Why? Because staffing can be a lot, especially if you’re if you get booked on a show that’s going to shoot six months, which doesn’t always happen.
But there are shows that will run six months. My buddy Julio, when he was on SEAL Team SEAL team would go from I think they would go from like July to March or something. So they would go they would go nine months.
And so nine months is a long time to do five days a week, 15, 16 hour days sometimes.
Yeah. Not really having that flexibility
and not really having that flexibility. And so I just I know a lot of people that will do that. And then there’s also people that after they’ve staffed a certain amount of times, they start because people a lot of people that are Paya’s are they’re collecting days to get into the Directors Guild so that they can hopefully
eventually add in Los Angeles or Atlanta or wherever. And I know people that it’s like, you know, if they have four or five hundred days already and they’re not hurting for money, they’re not jumping to staff. And some people just like the flexibility.
Is there is there like how much is there much of a difference between like playing and stuff?
Oh, yeah. I mean, that’s that can be I mean, it can be a huge difference. It just depends. But I mean, staffing, you’re going to be there five days a week.
This is more consistent, I guess.
Yeah, it’s just more consistent. It’s the consistency. So really, it’s about what you’re comfortable with and how much money you want to have. And also, you know, how much stress and sleeping.
Yeah. How much do you want your soul to be sucked dry?
That’s exactly at times. Yeah. Although like there are some shows that I’ve you know, I’ve been really blessed that most of the shows that I have staffed, the ads are great. The other parts are great. The crew I’ve been blessed that I’ve been on mostly shows that everybody’s just great.
Yeah. So even if you’re working the really crazy hours, you’re not like this is terrible or whatever. What have I done to myself, you know?
Yeah. Oh, man. So, I mean, all right. Being great to work with and what you were saying before, it’s like, you know, kind of about who you know, if there’s anything that I know that like our our particular circle says about you, is that like, no, what you’re great to work with is number two, I try, but
you are just like really, really great at networking. You’re just a fantastic networker. Yeah, I know. Like, well, is that a surprise to you that they would say, oh, well, I,
I would say yes and no.
I’m definitely I’m like three different sources.
I’m an introvert, but I am a people person. And so it’s very I’m just naturally I’m able to get along with people from all walks of life just for some reason. That’s how I’m wired. And that’s helpful. That’s definitely been helpful as a background pay.
Yeah, because I had an aide say that to me on insecure issues. I said I just don’t know how you’re able to deal with all these backgrounds. Sometimes you always seem so calm and not stressed. And I say I say Alessandri, I’m hiding it real.
Well, I guess I don’t.
That was that was hilarious, because like my my next question for you was literally going to be like just for my own curiosity of like whether or not you were an introvert next year, because like I’m always curious how I wonder how our interplay, our introverted friends do and like how they handle this business.
I’m networking is such a huge
part of it. I’m an extroverted introvert, if that makes sense. Yeah, I can come off as an extrovert, but I definitely have that limit where it’s just all of a sudden it’s like a switch flips. Yeah. I’m like, I need to go be by myself now.
But then after after a little bit, I’m immediately like, OK, I need to be around human beings right now.
It’s like. So have you noticed? I mean, I think it’s just a thing of getting older because, you know, you start to balance out a little bit, introvert’s me a little bit more Ashboro. I, I definitely I have those Chave days where I’m just like, no, no, I’m not going to.
Yeah, I’m going to sit here with my puzzle and I’m not going to. Anybody but I have noticed some limitations with, you know, because I just came off of a production and I remember pulling, you know, like those three a.m. on a nights and oh, my gosh, I was useless for like a day and a half after
I did like three of those in a row. It’s just don’t bounce back. Is there some way that you particularly like for the introverted people out there who are trying to get in this big film? I don’t know.
Like, what are some of the things you do to recharge?
Oh, to recharge.
Yeah, I am. Or just to like cut out like I mean, because you have to work. Right. Yeah.
Well, a lot of times I’ll depending on how stacked my bank account is after I finish a job.
And it’s motivating.
I will spend at least I’ll usually spend at least two days where I’m just not doing anything. I’d probably post meeting Chappellet and watching TV and playing video games with my college friends. Hmm. But then this last time, right after Insecure ended, I flew to Utah and visited one of my childhood friends for a couple of days
, and we just checked out some of Utah. I wasn’t able to stay long enough, but then and then I and then I went home for almost ten days. I had a wedding in Atlanta. I had to go to and and then and then I went back to Nashville and saw my family and stuff.
And so you just check out, you know, like, yeah, I totally understand. I’m sure he’s very. And yeah.
And one thing that’s helpful for me, too, and it’s every time I finish a job, I’m always like, I have the same moment where I’m like, oh, my God, where’s my next job is going to come from? I’m never going to work again.
And then a job always comes. But as I’ve been in the business long enough, I’ve kind of learned that it’s OK to take some time for yourself.
It’s necessary.
Yeah. And I’ve definitely know I’ve had some I’ve had some health things I’ve had to deal with over the last couple of years here and there. And it’s one of those things where the industry’s going to be there and the long and the longer you’re here, if you have to take a month and even if you have
to take a year, you know, I’m trying to avoid ever having to take a year off. But if I did, I know enough people that if I disappeared for a year and then came back, I probably would be able to still get plenty of work.
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s that’s really important to know that, you know, I think sometimes people just need permission. Because I remember feeling, I don’t know, like lazy, you know, when I really need it, because like I would I would do some of these international gigs and I’d come back and I just I would not talk to anybody
and not do anything for literally a solid week. And I’m like, man, I am so lazy. Why can’t you just like keep up with stuff, you know, like giving yourself permission to recharge and you don’t get.
Oh, yeah. And that’s that’s a big thing with me, especially like for my writing, because I’m always trying to write as much as I can. In 2020, I was able to write to original features and and and do another draft of a pilot that I had written the prior year that was partially due to the pandemic.
But the last feature that I wrote towards the end of the year, I wrote that while I was staffing, which was really hard. So I was writing on weekends pretty much. I would try to to say, OK, I’m going to pop out 10 to 15 pages this weekend.
I’m just going to force myself to do it. Yeah. Yeah. But then, you know, you had times where you just you just can’t write. You can’t be in production and write at the same time. And you also have personal stuff that you have to take care of.
You have your health and you got your friends and family yet. And then 20-20 especially. I really wanted to kind of work on my mental health a little bit more. So I did therapy and I had just started therapy when I got the call to go interview for a generation.
And then I was upfront with them and I said, you know, to two different people that knew James and another person that I played with had given this aid, Denise, my contact info. And I just I told her, I said, hey, you know, I really want to work for you.
I could definitely use the money right now, but I literally just started therapy again. I’m doing it. You know, I’m doing it every other Wednesday night from seven to eight, which is the only time my therapist had opened at that time.
Yeah. And because of how many people were trying to do therapy? Because of the crazy talk. Yes.
Yes. And and like artists, too.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And she and she said she said, okay, let me talk to the let me talk to the first ads about that and I’ll get back with you. And then maybe a day or two later, she called me back and she did say, hey, I talked to the first AIDS.
They think that’s great that you’re trying to take care of your mental health and more people. And and and we all think that. More people in our business should be taking care of their mental health. So, yeah, we’ll make that work.
Frej. And then I was able to get to the point over the course of the show, like I want to say the last month of the show, I had kind of gotten to the point where I had worked everything out that I needed to work out.
And I was kind of already feeling like I was in a place where I didn’t need therapy anymore. And even then, my therapist, when I called my therapist, he said, actually, I was going to tell you the same thing.
I don’t know. And I said, well, if you don’t think I need it, then I guess I’m OK.
So no, but that’s so that’s so amazing to see because, you know, talking to I don’t know, some of the old timers that, you know, I remember talking to Corey Pollard a lot about it, about this, because like he was, you know, from a different era where it’s just like, you know, rub some dirt in it like
Hollywood. You have time for this? Oh, yeah. And one of the things that he did mention was that it was so encouraging to see a present generation coming up that would actually have boundaries and say no and, you know, be able to take care of yourselves the way they needed to.
A lot of the unions right now are pushing hard for ten hour days, especially because we’re you know, we’re still in the pan to make people feel like we’re now. But we are, especially in L.A. County. You know, I’ve seen so many posts where people are trying to push for a 10 hour days and making basically making
that the norm so that people can have lives. And now, you know, so that people can have lives, that people people can see their children other than the weekends and. Mm hmm. And I think that’s great. I’m not in a union, so hopefully the unions will work that out.
But I’m not I’m not going to be upset if I can still pay all my bills and work 10 hours a day instead of 12 to 16. Oh, my God.
Yeah. Right, right. Right. OK, so I mean, we’re going to like you touched a little bit on the writing, so we’re going to visit that a little bit later. But for those coming into the business and are faced with the reality of doing work for a while, because like, you know, there are some people who are just
like, wait, what? No, no, no. I’m going to be a director as soon as I get there. So they might be a little bit, you know, misinformed or discouraged at the thought of it. But like, what would you say to them?
Well, one, it’s not that bad. Two. Right. One thing that I’ve been learning slowly, because this business is all about relationships and connections and stuff like that, you’re going to have your best luck meeting people that are also on the same level as you.
It helps to meet people that are up top. But the executive producer of Insecure is not going to be able to do anything for me. You know, he can hire me as an assistant. You know, he could recommend, you know, if he had read one of my scripts or something.
So this is great. He could pass my stuff on to a manager and maybe give me a meeting, you know what I mean? But he’s not going to it’s not going to suddenly fast track me. Yeah. And, you know, it happens very rarely.
If you’re not Damien Chazelle, the odds of you not having to do the work and make the connections and make the genuine connections, you know, that’s you know, my my buddy Julio, we met at work, but we became genuine friends outside of work.
Yeah. And so he’s got light. And that has helped me because like, regardless of what’s going on in the business, like we are just genuine friends. We text each other all the time, like I know his mom, like I’m interning.
And it’s like one of those things
where she’s going to fight for each other, you know?
Exactly. Exactly. And like push. And and that’s kind of the biggest important thing. You know, it’s helpful to me, at least for PR is and some it’s helpful to meet other people because the majority of the work that I’ve gotten has been through.
I mean, some ads hit me up, but sometimes it’s just simply like if you have a relationship with another P.A. and they’re they’re staffed on a show and you’re looking for work and they’re in the ad trailer and they’re like, hey, we need five more days for tomorrow.
Anybody got any names? Yeah. You know, they’re going to say, oh, hey, I know this person, blah. And like, yeah. And they can help with that. Yeah. Hypothetic. Yeah. If they vouch for you. Yeah. Because that’s the thing.
As long as someone vouches for you and you don’t screw up, that’s too bad. Everyone’s allowed to make a little mistakes. Yeah. But you know, nothing crazy. Crazy, you know, that’s the big thing. You know,
I want to hear I want to hear about a mistake. I would love I would love for you to tell me a story about something that went wrong.
So something that went wrong for me that ended up it turned out OK. But in the moment, I was like, oh, my God, I’m going to be fired forever. I was deifying on euphoria and we were on the Sony lot and I’d been helping out.
There were a lot of cast members that day. And so I’d been helping out, just driving them to and from the stages and stuff. And Zendaya had to she had to go do some ADR and another part of the lot.
And I had never I had never really been to the Sony lot before. They explained how to get there. But if you’ve ever been on the Sony lot, it is not the Sony lot is much more compact and there’s way more buildings that are put together than when you’re on the universal lot.
It’s a lot easier. Certain lots are just easier to navigate. Yeah, I drove Zendaya over. I got like halfway there and then I was like, I think I’m going the right way. And she’s like. So yeah, I think it’s over there.
And then went back to texting on her phone and I was like. And then like I kind of got lost. And I was like, oh, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. She’s like, it’s cool. Cool. I think it’s over there.
Let’s try over there. And then we ended up finding it after like two tries. We found it. And I was like, oh, my God, like. And the thing about India, too, is like because I’m I’m a little bit older, so like I didn’t I didn’t understand how big of a deal she was until I got to euphoria
. And the first day we were on location, we were shooting at this school. And while school’s in session, classes broke. And all of a sudden you just hear and I was locking up somewhere and all of a sudden you just hear girl screaming bloody murder.
And I was like, what is going on? And somebody else is, I think somebody just thousandaire like. I think that’s it. That’s literally that’s all it is. And so I just didn’t fathom because. Yeah, because I didn’t you know, I’m not a massive like Marvel fan.
So I hadn’t like I hadn’t really seen I hadn’t seen the Spiderman movies that she did. And I and I didn’t I had stopped watching Disney Channel a long time since I was on Disney Channel. So I just I just didn’t know.
And then so when I went when I got sent back to go pick her up, I got there I got there on the first try. And then when I got to when I got up top to where they’re recording the guy, I was like, oh, she just she just left.
She just walked out the other side. And so I was like, oh, crap. And I like ran downstairs and she was gone. I got down like she she’s tall. So she has really long strides, like really long. She was gone.
And I was like, oh, my God, I lost my losses and I’m going to be fine. I’m fine. And I just like I and I was like, oh. And then I call as like looking around. I’m looking around and I just I don’t see her.
And and then I call I call Susan the base camp aidi, and I’m like, oh, I’m so sorry. Like she was gone when I got there. I lost. And Susan was like, oh, that’s okay. She’s she just got to base camp.
It’s all good. It’s like it’s fine. We’re like, no, no one’s going to mob her on the Sony lot. It’s fine. And I was like, OK. I was like, all right. A non travesty that now is fine. Just come back to the show.
But I was terrified. I was terrified in the moment. I was like, oh, my. I was like, oh, my God. I lost one of the most famous people on the planet. Right.
Well, I mean, at the very least, all you would have to do is just follow the screams, like all the exams and then like and then, you know, deal with all the repercussions of having to pay for her injury bills for like all of her Maddington.
Exactly. Exactly.
I remember someone told me once that like the first years in L.A., they’re kind of like like basically another degree.
Everyone that I’ve talked to. And I always have to remind myself this, too, whether you’re a writer, whether you’re a producer, blah, blah, blah. It takes a solid ten years, at least just in general in the industry, because you have to work on your craft, you have to meet people.
It’s always about luck and timing as well. When I first met James, the the ad from Insecure. Insecure was his very first show, getting to work as a second second ad for the DGA in Los Angeles. He had just finished all of his third area days and been approved to work as a second second Adobe in Los
Angeles. He had just turned thirty one like maybe a week before he got hired to be on Insecure. I think he moved out here when he was like 22, 23, like right after college, the same way I did.
So, you know, I mean, that’s a solid eight years before of paying. He was a pay for a years, which is, you know, why is it you can do the Damien Chazelle thing? Sometimes it’s about who you know, too, because sometimes, you know, if you don’t know anybody, it’s can be hard to even just get a job
or the right the right job.
Yeah. On a project based industry. Yeah. You have to know. You have to like, you know, diversify. That’s our version of diversifying our.
Oh, absolutely. And also for somebody like me, because I. Until I’m comfortable around, I have a hard time speaking up kind of, you know, because I don’t ever want anyone to think that I just want something from them.
So I have I always have a hard time letting just introducing myself sometimes until I’m comfortable around people or introducing myself to like higher ups. My one of my professors in college, David, he had always say I he was the first person I think I ever heard say this.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Mm hmm. And so that’s and like to this day, like that’s a phrase that just always popped into my head, because it’s like when I’m trying to remind myself, hey, you need to check in on people just because I’m always you know, the worst thing that’s going to happen is they don’t text
you back or they don’t email you back. And 90 percent of the time is not even because they’re they don’t want to it’s just because they’re busy. And sometimes people forget, like I’ve had I’ve had so many times where someone’s like, oh, I meant to text you back.
I was in the middle of texting you. And someone called me on my walkie and I forgot. And then I remembered a month later that I hadn’t actually text, you know.
Yup, yup, yup, yup. So like from where you are now, what’s something about this process that actually came as a surprise, like compared to what you thought as an L.A. freshman?
I guess most people are willing to answer your questions. Well, you know what I mean? As long as long as you ask in the right way, you’re aware of your surroundings when you’re asking the questions are trying to, quote unquote, shoot your shot.
You know what I mean? Because Prentis, the he is one of the show runners on Insecure. He did a Q&A on Instagram about that. And someone asked him a question about, you know, I’ll have him on set. And I just wanted to try to, you know, pitch something to a P.A., you know, shoot my shot at friend
is literally said, never do that. Never pitch to him. Like don’t ever pitch yourself to anyone on set, especially if they’re at work because you don’t know what’s going on. And they’ll let you know. You don’t know what’s been going on right before that.
What’s about to happen. You don’t like you don’t know the 20 things that they may be dealing with in their head. And the last thing they want to do is hear pitch from somebody they don’t know because he’s you know, it’s because he was just like, you know, it’s all about relationships.
And, yes, it’s you know, the biggest thing is shoot your shot would be calculated about. Read the read and read. Read the room. Yeah, that’s the best reading room. And also, sometimes it’s you’re not always going to be the right fit for every project, you know, as they are with writing, you know, everyone I write a lot
of drama. I write way too many period piece of stuff. This is way too expensive. But I also like write my modern dramas are very specific things that are important to me and speak to me. And not everyone’s writing the same thing.
So also, you know, be aware of the audience that you’re targeting and be aware of, you know, the shows you or you know, because like when I worked on Vaida, you know, Viada is an LGBT Keu targeted, you know, that’s their audience like.
And Tanya Tanya Saraceno like she she’s fantastic. She’s amazing. Super, super nice person. The the things that Tanya makes, like they’re not like what she does and what I do very different. Seems like the kind of idea that she wouldn’t necessarily be the right person to approach with kind of the stories that I write, because as she
writes, a lot of her stuff is like dramedy. And I don’t like I’m terrible at comedy. I don’t you know, I don’t do dramedy. People tell me I’m funny. I’m not funny enough to write comedy scripts. I guess be aware of what you’re trying to do and what other people are trying to do.
And if your voices are going to mesh and click, I don’t know if that makes sense or not.
You know, when you were on home and family, it wasn’t a narrative show. And you’re just like, OK, how can I get onto a narrative show, at least, you know, because I did have a question about that. So you’ve been on a lot of TV shows, and that’s kind of been your bread and butter.
And you’ve just now gotten on you had a narrative, right?
Well, when I usually when I say narrative, I just, you know, storytelling.
Oh, but was it.
I spent a week working on a feature. They don’t shoot as many features in Los Angeles as they used to. Yeah, they’re trying to bring that back.
So what is your hopes, though? I mean, for for wanting to get closer to your writing gig. What are your current strategies? Because like, you know, like right now you’ve moved to narrative now. That’s great. So are you wanting to write features or you wanting to write like TV shows?
Like what’s your hope for that?
I write both. OK, all right. Shot. You can’t box me in and I’m
not going to be
caught. You know, I’m I’m always trying to make connections with other assistants and especially like show runners assistants when I can. Yeah. The people that I like generally connected with for one reason or another. So like Raul, who’s been a guest on the show, and I met him on Vaida Brawls just like a friend.
Yeah. So he, you know, and he’s. Yeah, and he’s awesome. And he’s all right. He’s a writer. He’s a writer who’s moving up, you know, he has a manager now and stuff. So it’s it’s helpful to like I say, it’s helpful to meet people that are either just on your level or a little bit ahead of you
that want to do either the exact same thing as you or something similar to what you’re doing, because what Raul and I write are very different. But, you know, he’s a writer. He has a manager. He knows how to get a manager, you know, which is always helpful.
Then one of my other good friends, Hosey, who I went to college with, he’s currently the writers P.A. on Young Shelden. So, you know, he’s able to give me advice and, you know, give me insights and all that stuff.
I’m semi active on writer screenwriting Twitter. I’m a lurker more than I’m a tweeter right now. But, you know, I follow an agent and manager named John Zayani, who is like he’s a relatively like big time literary manager, an agent.
He’s always just giving free advice there. There’s so many like I get a lot of advice on Twitter and then and also about Twitter.
Now, I do have a question about that. Where do people find the writers? Is it a specific hashtag that you guys use that like, you know, nobody else?
Well, yeah. I mean, yes and no. Like, I don’t really I very rarely like put a hashtag in my Twitter. I don’t have that many followers. And I get very, very few interactions like that. But they do like hashtag pre.
WRGA is OK for like a lot of a lot of up and coming writers who haven’t gotten into the guild yet. If you have a favorite show, look at the writer or the creator or something and just search them on Twitter, you know.
Yeah, that’s fantastic. Yeah.
A screenwriting podcast that one of my buddies got me into a couple of years ago. The Children of Tendu. It’s over. It’s ended now. But, you know, I follow those guys. And those guys have been in the business for 30 years.
You know, they’ve written on some of you know, one of them was a writer on the first season of Lost, and he was a writer on the second. You know, he’s written and one of them like was the creator and producer of the middleman.
OK. And so just those guys have just they just gave like just literally oceans of advice and pract just practical knowledge and a bunch of the stuff you just you cannot learn in film school is stuff you can literally only learn by being in L.A. and being in that business if you’re chasing screenwriting.
Yeah. Yeah. And they just gave it out for free. There’s, you know, six or seven years of just free screenwriting knowledge. You’re getting to see these working writers who are like high up writers. You know, these guys are show runners.
Sometimes they’re strong number twos that are helping the show runners and they’re just giving out free advice. I’ve learned so
much. So I kind of piggybacking on that, like you learn a lot from observing, obviously. I imagine that seeing actors work with a script has given valuable insight to. Oh, yeah. What does and doesn’t work when you’re first like putting it on the page?
Definit, definitely. I mean, because I’ve I’ve been on sets before where an actor literally is like this lines is not working and the director’s like, I agree. And then they’ll just change it. And sometimes it’s helpful because I’ve been on, you know, when I’m on insecure, most shows that I’ve been on.
Whoever wrote the episode is usually on hand when they’re on set, just in case they need to change a line or change something in the scene. Yeah. So they can kind of just do it on the fly. Yeah.
And I see that a lot. And then I’ve seen sidebar conversations with A-list actors and the writer. Sometimes they’re heated and sometimes they’re not, you know.
I can imagine that like something, it would just be like, oh, this is just really awkward to say. And this is just like a surface thing that is super easy. But then there’s other stuff that goes like way deeper, as in like this change would actually change this part in this scene and this character arc and everything
, like how deep are you going to go?
Well, thankfully, I’ve never been on a set where they just change some motivation or something that’s so crazy that it’s like we’re done. We got to scrap the whole thing today. You know, folks like that’s never happened to
me,
thankfully. Yeah. I mean, although most of the time if that had happened, I think the crew is just like, yeah, we got a seven that we got an eight hour day and they’re going to pay us for the full 12.
This is great, you know. No, I’ve never seen anyone upset that we had to go home early. Yeah, I haven’t seen anything super crazy like that on the shows that I’ve been on, at least. Yeah, I like I said, I’ve seen a few heated discussions here and there, but I’ve never seen just straight up like this whole
thing is not working. We had to scrap it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I was curious how that kind of went into your own writing. Were there any kind of cues that you just kind of picked up along the way, just like maybe maybe I won’t do that with my character or like maybe this actually wouldn’t work.
The biggest thing that I’ve learned is writing an exterior scene at night just as an immediate complication to the. Of that. And children.
Yeah.
Kids kid, because. As a background to, you know, when you have kids, you have, you know, you can only work kids for a certain amount of time. They also have to do school while they’re on set. So you have a teacher that you have to ring to set and then you’re always like a lot of times the
goal is to bring the kids in early enough that you can get the school in so that you can take care of their whole school and then get them to set. And then once they’ve worked their leil at different age, groups are only allowed to be on are only allowed to be working on set for a certain
amount. I think babies is like two hours. Yeah. And they make babies make gobs of money to work two hours, just gobs of money. It is unfair. They don’t even know that they’re working and they’re making like so much money.
It’s ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. Those are things that like I’ve learned from like genuine practical aspects. Adding children just adds an extreme complication.
But I mean, if you’re wanting to sell your script, it’s a big deal. Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, and I wrote a feature that had a baby in it and it had a child in it. But the baby is literally in the first scene and then never seen again. And then the kid is only in like three.
So the kid only has like six lines, six or eight lines throughout the whole movie, enough to make it significant, but not not enough to add like a zillion extra complications.
So like stranger things. Yeah, it’s
it’s just things that and I will say that that is one benefit of being an actual production, even though in some ways it can be harder to get face time with writers and producers and stuff by being on set.
But at the same time, because I’ve gotten to work on a variety of different shows, I know when I’m writing things, I know what I’m asking of the crew and what I’m asking of the producer to come up with.
Yeah, I sometimes I write stuff that I’m just like, I know this is what I’m asking you, and I know it’s going to be amazing. But also, you know, I’ve been on shoots where it’s just like the amount of stuff that that it’s going to take just to get that whole day is involving easily 30 to 40
people coming in at three a.m. in the morning and regular crew in order to start prepping and getting all the extras in. So it’s like the hair, makeup and wardrobe people excuse me, costumes, their hair, hair, makeup and costumes.
Paya’s and AIDS are literally coming in at three, 30 in the morning. And Krukov might not be until 6:00 a.m.. So like the actual 12 hours or the actual six hours before your first meal break doesn’t actually start until 6:00 a.m. when the rest of the crew gets there.
But you’ve been on the clock since three, 30 or 40. And then and then that also involves you getting up at two or two, 30, you know, depending on depending on where you’re shooting. So it’s kind of just being aware.
That has been very helpful for me because I’m I’m aware of the kinds of complications that you’re adding when you’re asked, when you’re putting in just the little things.
So I’m going to ask you about some game changing tools of your trade. If you think if there are if there are any. I was just saying, oh, like it doesn’t have to be like I mean, I would love, you know, gear, gadget and software or whatever.
Yeah. But like I remember somebody saying to me, like, because I was I was doing international gigs and somebody had mentioned they’re like, dude, biggest game changer. Take an inflatable camping pad because you have to sleep in the airport and stuff like that.
But I had never thought about it in it seriously was again.
That’s interesting. Yeah, I
think it’s neat. So I mean, it’s just like as your life as a slash writer.
Well, software, it’s always controversial in 2021, but I’m still a I’m still a proponent of finally using final draft. I like final draft. When they were doing Adobe story, I did enjoy Adobe story, but like final draft has been the go to you know, when I, I bought my first copy of final draft, I think in eighth
or ninth grade, because I knew I wanted to be a screenwriter way back. And I used I use my high school ID to get a student discount.
Well, what’s what’s a quirk of Adobe is that you didn’t like them?
I don’t even remember it because it’s been so long. I don’t even think there’s a Dovi story exist.
And I don’t even know. I don’t even know. I’d like the ones that I know of are just like final draft and like Celtics.
I have never met anyone in my life who is like, yeah, I wrote this script on Celtics and it’s sold, you know, and I you know what I mean? I’ve never. And on screen, I’ve never in my travels across screenwriting, Twitter, I’ve never I’ve never seen anyone in.
Who actually makes money writing? Ever mention anything about Celtics?
Interesting, because like I mean, it’s like it’s formatting, right? So like what what exactly is the.
Don’t know. I just think I mean, final draft is always been the industry standard. I think there’s I think there’s a there’s like two or three other softwares out there. I don’t even remember names that that professional screenwriters are using as well.
But like they have to like deliver the files, I guess.
Yeah, that’s the big thing. And obviously, obviously, don’t write us. Don’t write a screenplay on Microsoft Word. It should be obvious, but I’m sure there’s people out there that maybe, maybe need to invest in final draft now.
Yes. Yes, I should. Just in case I should. Unless I get into this.
In case if you’re trying to get in the PR world, you should always go to film tours and pay that sixty dollars or whatever it is to get yourself a surveillance headset for your walkie. You don’t want to be that person who shows up to set and goes, hey, do you guys have any surveillances?
Because the people, they hate giving them out. They hate giving up because they’re expensive. They’re expensive. And when you’re renting when you’re renting a Waukee package, you know, they charge you for every surveillances. And I returned and they charge you for every wanky that’s not returned.
And Watkis can run up to like six hundred dollars a walk in. Yeah. So it’s just one of those things that.
Oh, OK. No, that’s good to know, because I didn’t know that they didn’t give you surveillance because
they’ll hook you up with their hook you up with what’s called a referred to as a Burger King. OK. And it’s just that is literally like the headset money. And you don’t look, they’re not they’re not that fashionable.
I don’t know if they’re any favorite new gadgets that like really revolutionize how you work
for actually for background, a program that I’ve been using on the last two shows that I was on. It’s called Rabs, sort of short for run a better set. And what it does is it’s all it’s digital vouchers for all the background, so.
Oh, wow. In the vouchers are basically, you know, that’s the daily timecards. And so for years and prior to the pandemic, I think Rabs have been around a little bit before the pandemic. But I got introduced to it in 2020.
So it hadn’t been I don’t think has been around that long. But essentially, it has all literally all the information for all the vouchers. So essentially, you can do instead of having 60 or 80 or sometimes 200 individual paper vouchers for signing people in and out every day, you can literally all do that with the push of
a button.
So it’s an apt
it’s it’s an app and a website. It’s mostly a website. And then four sets that are working with extras a lot. That’s been a very helpful thing, because if you have to go back and if you have to go back and like adjust something, you can go back and do that with the push of a button and
fix it right there, because also at the end of the night, you have to do what’s called a breakdown. So it’s essentially categorizing all these different vouchers by their in and out time, like their meal penalties if they got them, if they were given a prop or something, or if they were around smoke, if they were around
someone, if they were around smoking, if they’re around something that was smoking, or if they’re using like a fog machine. Oh, yeah. You know, that counts as what’s called a smoke bomb. So they get a little extra money for that.
And so that immediate like just having that one difference immediately puts them into a separate category for accounting. So sometimes you might have like 30 categories on like crazy, crazy days. You might have 30 individual categories for accounting to look at for processing the payroll for that background.
Yeah. And prior to the digital vouchers, which the industry slowly it’s at a turtle pace, it’s kind of moving towards it. But it’s like prior to that, you’d have to organize all the vouchers at the end of the night after you signed all these people out.
So we might wrap it, say, as a nation, we might wrap at five a.m., might take you another hour, hour and a half, potentially, depending on how many extras you have to get everyone back to base camp out of their costumes.
If they had costumes, then sign them all out and then you have to organize all the vouchers, mercy. And that’s by the stars. That’s why that’s why the SAG background and the nonunion background. And then you have to organize the categories and blah, blah, blah.
Then you have to calculate the meal penalties. And if they got a bunch of meal penalties. Thankfully not. Nonunion background only gets one meal penalty, but sag. Background every 30 minutes past their first meal penalty, they get another meal penalty.
So you have to start calculating that the standard actors are also on the vouchers and you have to organize it by the most expensive. There were times on euphoria where we had like hundreds of extras and it’s 7:00 in the morning.
And yes, you’re in Santa Clarita, which is like an hour north of Los Angeles, almost depending on traffic. And the morning dew is coming in and all of this stuff. So the tables are getting wet and you’re literally stacking paper vouchers on a table, on a table that’s literally getting wet, completely out of your control.
You can dry it off and it may continue to start getting wet. And so it’s just having the electronic vouchers prevents you having to do that. And honestly, it saves a
lot of time with such a fantastic.
Yeah, it saves a lot of time and manpower, you know.
Yeah, absolutely.
And money, ultimately, it saves the production money because because it’s easier to do that in the click of a button. And if you have to go back and change it or fix something, you can just make the adjustment with the click of a button later instead of paying seven other people to stay on the clock for another
hour, hour and a half. And some of the. You know.
Yeah. No, no. Seriously. Oh, that’s amazing. What current project are you excited about?
One of the ads that I’ve worked for off and on the last couple of years is working on the TV show Aubury with Bill Hader. And I love Barry. I I’m a huge fan of that show. And I’m trying to like I’m like, hey, Erin, if you need me, if you will let me know.
And she already you know, so I’m hoping that in this next month, they’re shooting until December. So I’m hoping that between now and then, I get to go work on that. And then you for I’m working on euphoria tomorrow, actually.
So I’m working on you for you tomorrow. I was some of the 80s from that. And so that’d be cool to see some people. It’s also crazy. It’s just there’s always a lot of moving parts on that show because a great show and you know, the the better show is sometimes the harder it can be to make
. Barry is the big thing that I’m really hoping to get. Yeah. To work on because I like I say, I love that show. Yeah. Yeah. Bill Hader is fantastic. And obviously the great Henry Winkler, I’ve seen him in the flesh before at a movie theater.
He was eating popcorn with his wife off by himself, so we did
not bother him.
But I love to actually, you know, get to be around him when he’s working so that those are the two big things.
So how do people find or follow your work? Shameless, shameless plug up.
You can follow me on Instagram. I’m on Twitter. But like I said earlier, I’m more of a lurker than a tweeter.
Hey, well, people like sometimes like people have gotten in touch at B.J. Passenger.
I’m the only I’m the only person on there that has that name. So it shouldn’t be too hard to find me. But if you if you do send me if you do send me a dam or anything like that, just let me know that you heard me on Tanya’s podcast.
I don’t think you’re just like a random person.
Yeah.
Feel free to follow me if unintentionally. You dm me on Twitter and I accidentally leave you on read just. No, I was probably on set and in the middle of something. And I genuinely probably forgot. Like, don’t don’t take it too personal.
That means that the squeaky wheel needs to get the grease. So be squeaking, be squeaking.
But don’t scream.
What questions should I have asked you?
I think pretty much all the advice I could ever give, I’ve poured out. I poured my heart out already. Other than, you know, always memorize those breakfast orders. And if if a hot snack comes out on set, go ahead and offer that to the Adobe.
Go take a quick picture of the menu. Go to the assistant director and or whatever ad you see on set. Just go out to them and say, hey, this is what they got. You want anything?
Oh, that is a good tip.
And then they and then maybe, maybe, just maybe, they’ll delegate you to get the director, the director or the producer or a snack. And maybe they’ll remember your name and maybe they won’t know.
But to really get and another
one, one one day, you could get Steven Spielberg some pizza rolls on set, you know, you know. Yeah, that could be that could be your life one day.
Anyway, thank you so much for all the ways. And like, honestly, like you probably have more to offer than some, you know, like you’ve said this a couple of times, you know, get to know the people who are on the same trajectory and pretty much on the same level as you.
I mean, I I’ve said this before because somebody had mentioned it. Your mentors being two years ahead of you instead of twenty. Yeah.
Scorsese and Spielberg and George Lucas, like all those guys, knew each other when they were like young hotshot directors are like trying to be. Hotshot Durrette, like they’d have drinks and get burgers together and stuff, you know what I mean?
So just like those things where it’s like when they’re like, oh, I’m never going to get a directing job or I’m never going to get a directing job again. You know, back back when Hollywood is pumping out 30 movies a year, you know, it’s like, yeah, you know, she’s like one of those things where, you know, that’s
that’s an idea that that I think that’s a universal truth of the industry, honestly, that really genuinely goes back all the way to the very beginning of the industry, you know?
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate all of the fantastic advice that you have given. That is very valuable. Glad I
could help
if you enjoyed this interview. Follow us right here and on Instagram and check out more episodes at the practical filmmaker dot com. If you have comments or questions, feel free to email me Tanya@thepracticalfilmmaker.com or DM me on insta. Be well and God bless.
We’ll see you next time on the practical filmmaker.