Every filmmaker has their own unique way of starting out in the industry. 

This week we revisit past episodes to learn how a few filmmakers got their start. This anthology episode includes Alex Ferrari from Indie Film Hustle; Mike Wilds, filmmaker; Julio Zepeda, camera assistant; Taylor Morden, Last Blockbuster Documentary, and David Alan Arnold from Deadliest Catch. You’ll learn what hacks they used to get started, and how you can apply what they did to your career. 

Listen now to get ahead of the competition when starting out in the industry. 

Show Links:

Alex Ferrari Indie Film Hustle Full Episode 
Mike Wilds Full Episode 
Julio Zepeda Full Episode
Raul Martin Romero Full Episode 
Taylor Morden Full Episode 
David Alan Arnold Full Episode 

Key Points:

Skip to: 1:50 Alex Ferrari: Get out of dollars for hours Skip to: 10:04 Mike Wilds: Getting Started as a PA Skip to: 13:39 Julio Zepeda: Loopholes in the union Skip to: 23:00 Raul Martin Romero: Get a start late in life Skip to: 29:44 Taylor Morden: Leaving corporate work for documentary filmmaking Skip to: 38:35 David Alan Arnold: Dropping out of college

Full Transcript:

Tanya Musgrave:
Welcome to the practical filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by the filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival. Where industry professionals sack nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today. Find the full transcripts and more at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. I’m your host Tanya Musgrave and we’re taking a little break still with a brief summer hiatus. So today we’re doing a bit of an anthology episode where we’ve gathered some practical nuggets from our guests that we thought would be helpful for those starting out.

Tanya Musgrave:
We’ll start off with some thoughts from indie director and host, vlogger, educator, guru of Indie Film Hustle, Alex Ferrari. I was actually pretty stoked about this one. Alex’s team reached out to me and he was someone I had not only heard of, but had been part of one of his Facebook groups for a while. The protect yourself from predatory film distributors and aggregators group. He dropped by to give a little exclusive on his new business filmmaker process. Check it out, as well as his own podcast on indiefilmhustle.com.

Tanya Musgrave:
His stuff is the very epitome of what I consider practical filmmaking. So again, I was super stoked to get a chance to chat with him. Here he talks about his journey from bitter filmmaker to actually living his dream side note, I’ve worked with those bitter filmmakers before, like bitter that they haven’t gotten their chance, or that their chance was given to someone else. It permeates their entire aura.

Tanya Musgrave:
And honestly, it sucks to work with. I was chatting with someone and it came up, no matter what gets thrown at you, sinkers are going to sink. But there are people out there willing to help. If you don’t know any at the moment, then be one of those people, I promise it’s just a natural flow, you’ll find more of them. So then, have a listen to what Alex has to say about that, as well as ways to get out of the financial struggle of dollars for hours.

Alex Ferrari:
No matter who you are, no matter what level of success you have, whether you have Oscars, whether you made billions of dollars, you’re going to get punched in the face by this business. At every stage of your career, Steven Spielberg still gets punched in the face, I promise you. Now the difference is, that he’s taken a few punches over his career, he knows how to take the punch and keep going. He knows how to duck. He knows how to weave. And occasionally he knows not to be where the punches being thrown.

Alex Ferrari:
And that is time but everybody gets hit. And I think a lot of filmmakers walked into this business, not knowing that there’s fists going to be coming their way. And then when they get hit, they’re out. They just get knocked out and they’re gone forever from the business. Or they get so discouraged that they just become angry and bitter. And we all know an angry and bitter filmmaker. And if we don’t know an angry, bitter filmmaker, you are the angry middle filmmaker that everybody else knows.

Alex Ferrari:
Because I wasn’t angry and bitter filmmaker. Oh, God, I was pissed. Imagine, I was like in my thirties and then there was like a 24 year old that shows up into my post suite with a feature film that got he got 3 million bucks for to make some stars in it. And I’m editing it and I’m doing all the posts [inaudible 00:02:56].

Tanya Musgrave:
Editing it.

Alex Ferrari:
I’m editing it and this kid in the background, and he’s just like, “I’ve never seen Blade Runner.” I’m like, “Shut the hell up.” And then of course, I’m sitting there editing like this mother. You know, why don’t I, I could do this job, I can. Oh, crap is all crap. Look at it. I can’t even save this movie. And I could have done something much better. Why won’t someone give me $3 million? And blah blah blah.

Tanya Musgrave:
Seriously, seriously, seriously. Like what due is it day? Yeah.

Alex Ferrari:
Yeah. Exactly. Like what how exactly, which dues did you pay? Like, how dare you? So I was an angry and bitter filmmaker for a long time. And till I realized that this wasn’t helping me, it wasn’t getting anywhere. And then everything changed after I started launched, Indie Film Hustle. Then in my entire career, my entire world changed for the better the moment I started being of service.

Tanya Musgrave:
I know people who are like, they’re teaching ESL classes, at the same time. And I mean, they’re getting up at 5:00 AM to do that, while they work on an editing gig here. And then they piecemeal themselves out.

Alex Ferrari:
So the thing is this, the problem with most mentalities as filmmakers, is everything you just told me like, oh, they have this gig over here, that gig over there, it is all dollars for hours. So that is the limitation. You only have so many hours in a day to make money. When you’re trading your time for money, and most of humanity has been trained to do dollars for hours. Now, it could be high dollars, it could be 300 bucks an hour as an attorney, but it’s still a limit to how much money you can make.

Alex Ferrari:
Everybody’s got 24 hours in the day. Nobody has more nobody has less. There is 24 hours in a day. So the key is to create assets for yourself that generate revenue. Passively. And when I say passively is a little misleading because you’re working. But when I say passive means that you’re not doing dollars for hours. Real estate is a “passive revenue stream” meaning that every month rent comes in, off of an asset that is creating revenue for you. What I’ve done is I’ve created digital assets in the digital world. So a book is a digital asset. And then off of the one book, I’ve got audio book, eBook, paperback, all of those.

Alex Ferrari:
And then in the book itself, their lead generators, to go to my website to upsell them to courses, or just introduce them to my ecosystem, and give them more free content. Or if they want to go down a paid route that can go down paid route, and so on. Imagine hundreds of those, spread out through a bunch of different places. So as filmmakers if you can find ways to create assets for yourself, so a film that you own, and can put up on platforms and sell and create multiple revenue streams around a film, that’s the whole film intrapreneur method, those are assets.

Alex Ferrari:
So I just interviewed a filmmaker who has been making money for the last 10 years, strictly off of just basically three or four documentaries he’s made. But he has a niche audience that he’s focused on, he’s created multiple ancillary products and services around it. And he’s been able to generate obscene amounts of money off of just that. Rise of the film entrepreneur, that’s what the whole thing is about. And I literally break down this with something I call the film entrepreneur method, which is all filmmakers can create a film. But when they’re creating the film, they’re thinking about a niche audience. So you focus in on a niche audience, that’s the key.

Alex Ferrari:
If you try to make a broad comedy, you’re going to fail. If you make a vegan chef, comedy, romantic comedy, then you could focus that on the vegans, on the vegetarians, on paleo, or people who are, that audience, you can target those audience, you can reach that audience. And then you could also create a cooking course on how to become a vegan, and then maybe possibly some books and maybe team up with someone else, and maybe sell some ancillary or affiliate products for people. So if you have an audience, figure out what they want, and what will serve them and sell multiple services, products, whatever, because they’re going to buy those products or services somewhere, might as well come to you. Because if you’ve built up that trust with the film that will help.

Alex Ferrari:
So that’s one way that filmmakers can go. But if you’re doing the dollars for hours thing, try to always have multiple skill sets multiple tools in your toolbox. So when one revenue stream, which is let’s say, editing, dries up, or oh, you know, COVID hit productions not really happening right now really helpful to understand editing at that point in the game. So if you’re a camera assistant, and then all of a sudden COVID happened, and there’s no production for seven months or longer. Maybe I could still do editing.

Alex Ferrari:
So you’re constantly should be building skill sets. And like we said before the interview started, I essentially ran the entire Indie Film Hustle universe, which is pretty broad, by myself, for years. Meaning that I did all the work myself with very little help from anybody else. And I was only able to do that because I built so many tools. I’ve had so many tools in my toolbox over the years, that I’m like, Oh, before I launched [inaudible 00:08:07] I didn’t know how to really build a website. So I taught myself.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Alex Ferrari:
And now I build websites. People ask me all the time, can you build my website? I’m like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I will never build a website for anybody else. But I could…

Tanya Musgrave:
[inaudible 00:08:18] myself never again.

Alex Ferrari:
Never again. But I could easily charge $5,000 for a website, comfortably. Because I build out websites like water, as you guys know. As you know I have so may different websites. But that’s a skill set that I built. So now that’s something I always have in my back pocket, and then editing, and then color grading, and VFX, and camera work, and all these other things that I do. So I’m constantly broadening all the different revenue streams that I can create. And I think we’re filmmakers get caught up is like, I’m only going to be an editor. I’m like, I wish you the best of luck. Because the marketplace will change.

Tanya Musgrave:
I mentioned it in the episode where David George flipped the mic on me and I always think of this. It’s from the Guardian, where Kevin Costner is giving Coast Guard advice to Ashton Kutcher character. And he says that you swim as fast and hard as you can for as long as you can. And as he takes rest, and sometimes it just takes a little chutzpah. Sometimes it might take a career change, for a career change, Mike Wilds would be able to tell you more on that. Starting off as a professional basketball player, he transitioned to self made filmmaker creating his company, Basic Films LA that has done work for the LA Rams, Case was and Bose, a buddy of mine got us in touch.

Tanya Musgrave:
And I remember the first time I touched base with him, he was actually on a construction site for a legit new endeavor with his friend. They were building a bit of an Airb&b but with a sound studio so that musicians could rent it out like an Airbnb. But then have a studio to work with. But anyway, back to film. He’s got great insight for those who have never gone to film school. He’s an open book and has an open invitation for anyone one wanting to connect. Mike@basicfilmsla.com.

Mike Wilds:
So she started driving for this guy, but the guy was like, man, I like you. And I want you to film some stuff for me. And [inaudible 00:10:13] literally he was telling me about it, but he’s like, man, I don’t know how to do this stuff. I just want to film. They’re not going to hire me. So he was like, just send your resume. So I send me my resume mind you, I had over 300 call sheets. I’m doing PA jobs for everybody. So they just needed a PA. So when I see my resume, they’re like, oh, I remember first thing I got to the lot was like, oh, he’s not green.

Mike Wilds:
So literally, they thought that I was my friend, so my friend yeah. Rest in peace. He didn’t want to really do it and they ended up hiring me. He picked up all the talent to come into the backlog. So that’s pretty much how I got in there. Once I got in, that was it. Like, I’m one of those type of people once I get in, I’m going to maneuver and I’m going to work my way and figure it out. And then I did PA. What’s interesting, though, is that I was PA there for two years. And the incident happened, and literally, you know what I say, you know what, I can’t take this. And I literally walked off that set.

Mike Wilds:
Yeah, I literally was just like, I put my walkie up, I ran into two or three people. I said, “You know what? Love you guys. It’s been real. But this…” As a PA people think they can treat you a certain way. I stood up, and mind you [inaudible 00:11:33] I’m like, “You know what, I don’t need this. I walked off.” So Mind you, I didn’t work there for six months and it goes by. So one of my good friends who randomly worked on a show that I went to junior high school with.

Mike Wilds:
So these things are like crazy, that [solani 00:11:52] was like the head in two. But I randomly went to junior high school with him on all the shows. He calls me back, and then they call me back they’re like, “Could you come in?” And the thing was that they didn’t fire me. So I quit. So it was like, Okay, well, can you come back? So I ended up coming back, and did another three years here. But then I was at camera utility. So it was a little different, obviously making way more money. And it was funny, because it was just like, I got to deal with the cameras.

Mike Wilds:
I felt like I was part of the real crew. I did that and then we parted ways. That’s pretty much how that journey happened. But it was literally like how you said it was like, these are things that happens to me. Like going somewhere and having a friend saying something speaking, they’re like, Oh, and I tell other people, this is who I am outside of film. I carry myself a certain way, I treat people a certain way, outside of them.

Mike Wilds:
So what that does is it carries on to the set, it carries on to when it’s time to make stuff and with people who really appreciate that because that can take you a long way as we know. We’ve all worked with a-holes and you know what, you’ll be like, I don’t never want to work with that person again. And then there’s people who you work with, you’re like, you know what, I really enjoy working with that person. I definitely want to work with that person. That was pretty much how I landed in the whole NBC thing came about.

Tanya Musgrave:
So sometimes it takes a little chutzpah or a career change. Sometimes it takes a serendipitous loophole, Julio Zapeda worked his way from PAing to the camera department, interestingly enough through digital utility. And he stopped by to completely blow my mind on a loophole into the camp union.

Julio Zapeda:
SEAL team is a nine month show. We’re working on that. And the first show I ever staffed, two of those camera systems on the first show I ever stepped as a PA, they were on SEAL team. So I was friendly with them and I was just kind of, I think as a PA I was always friendly with everybody and I was also the walkie PA getting to meet everybody. I’m turning in radios, and collecting out times at the end of the day. And I walk around. Being the key you just know everybody. And I was lucky enough to be friends with everybody. And it’s kind of a big family over there that shows so crazy nature, but we carry so many cameras.

Julio Zapeda:
And I was always in the middle of set one of the camera assistants, I remember him asking me like, “Hey, Julio you’re busy?” I’m like. “No what’s up?” “You mind grabbing that sled over there? You want to hit some sticks for us?” I just said, “Oh okay, cool.” And so I just started slating and I’m starting to learn a little bit more. I’m like, oh, what’s this, well, but yada, yada, yada. And the DP, I think kind of noticed because I remember he asked me. He said, ” Are you having fun doing this?” I was like, “Yeah, what do you mean?” “See, I see you.” And he had long hair. He would get it out of his [inaudible 00:14:36].

Julio Zapeda:
“I feel you’re having a lot more fun. When you’re slating you’re on the camera than you are an ad department.” I was like, “Yeah, Yeah, I think so.” He said, “Okay, Okay.” It came to the end of season one. And one of the other assistants asked me, “Have you talked to Jimmy?” If you want to look them up or anybody wants to look up the DP for SEAL team is Jimmy or James Michael Moreau. Jimmy was the Steadicam operator in the 90s. He worked on, Titanic, heap, LA confidential, Terminator II. He was the DP on crash. Big guy.

Tanya Musgrave:
Just, you know, little indies here and there.

Julio Zapeda:
Yeah, as they come up later on Dances with Wolves. So yeah, Jimmy is great. So apparently Jimmy was telling people, if we get to season two, I want to get Julius in a camera. And in my head, I was just like, okay, yeah, that’s cool. But I think up to that point, the way I wanted to do it, because I was getting all my PA days at this point, I had maybe 200 PA days, my whole thing was, I’m going to join the DGA, I’ll be an AD, I’ll be a work in AD for however long and then when I’m not working, I’ll be writing and funding my own project shorts. You know, yada, yada, yada. But the camera opportunity came out and then Season two came around. And I was there as the key set PA again. But the whole nine month of season two was kind of like how we can get Julio in the camera. And I was really lucky I had a lot of people and a lot of support.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah, it sounds like it.

Julio Zapeda:
Yeah. But you did ask me like horror stories, little side note horror story is. And this happens, I think for everybody, for anybody and everybody. You get people that support you and you also get people that don’t. And I had, no names. But I had a lady who didn’t support me, so it’s kind of like pulling teeth, which I also get. You know I had been there before I did all season one. I knew everything, I knew everybody and it was new AD is coming in. So it kind of makes sense of like, whoa, if you’re going to be replacing yourself, we’re losing a value, which I understand. But there’s a different way to go about it.

Julio Zapeda:
But hindsight, it all makes sense. And even then I was just kind of like, well, I get where she’s coming from. But it was, yeah, like pulling teeth trying to get my camera days. But slowly but surely I ended up with 18 camera in days, I think, as a digital utility. And then that show ended and it’s like, well, we will figure it out. I had the support from the DP, all the cameras assistants. My first AD, the showrunner. Everybody was just on the same page of we got to get Julio in a camera. And then I was PAing, I was day playing from when that went down. And there’s anybody’s interested there’s a loophole sort of, into the camera unit.

Tanya Musgrave:
Everybody is interested.

Julio Zapeda:
So I got in as a digital utility. And digital utility is what they call a non-rostered position, which I don’t think anybody really knows what that means yet, or as of now. But as a non-roster position, basically you could just pay to join.

Tanya Musgrave:
What?

Julio Zapeda:
And I found this out, yeah. I found this out from another utility. I was day playing PA on the morning show. And I mentioned to that utility I was trying to get in and he looked at me, he’s like, “Dude, just join.” And I said, “What do you mean?” He just said, “Just tomorrow.” This is the bay and he told me, we’re working in like, all nights in downtown LA, he’s like, this is the best thing you’re going to hear this week. Just call the union tomorrow, we have a late call and join. I was like, Okay, all right. So I got up early, I went down to the local and I was asking questions, and somebody at the front desk, she just gave me a business card, and she said, “Call this number, they’ll be able to help you out better.”

Julio Zapeda:
So that whole next day, I remember and I think we were at the Biltmore on set. And I was like in a deep lockup. And I was like, right let me call, what’s going on. Let’s see what this is all about. And I’m just talking, I’m basically pitching myself to somebody, I’m like, look my name is Julio, I started to get some digital utility days. I just want to know how, I keep hearing conflicting things like I need 30 union days, some people say, I don’t like it, you want to find out exactly what’s going on. And it was kind of like an interview process. It felt like, and this guy on the phone was like, what do you want to do? Because I think you should go to the rental house. What that means basically, like pandavision, Keslow, those are like the two big rental houses.

Julio Zapeda:
So I rent a house, they have what they call prep techs. And a lot of people did come up that way you would go work as a prep tech for a year or two. And then as you’re learning the gear, but you’re also making these connections, when somebody calls you, like, oh, hey, this is Julio what’s happening. Oh, this is so and so, we need help with this, you know, and you start making those relationships. A lot of people who were prep techs, they come out of there, when they’re ready to move on, they talk to the assistants that they’ve been talking to for however long.

Julio Zapeda:
The say, “Hey, I’m trying to get on a set if there’s ever a chance.” And that’s kind of how a lot of people came out. So this guy on the phone is telling me you know, you should be a prep tech or this, this and that. We want you to know that the union isn’t here, unfortunately, we’re not here to get your work. And we also don’t want to take your money. But if you have people that will hire you, then I can send you the application this, this and that. I was like, I literally turned down a job today because I’m not in the Union yet. And I’m scared to like keep working. So yeah, give me the paperwork. And that day they sent me the application to get in as a digital utility. They have payment plans, because it was a lot of money. I did the payment plan I put on a credit card and that’s how I kind of started working the camera and digital utility.

Tanya Musgrave:
Oh my gosh. What.

Julio Zapeda:
Yeah.

Tanya Musgrave:
So not even days?

Julio Zapeda:
No, I mean, you need the days for safety glasses. Yes. So it’s difficult. It’s like a catch 22. Because you need a 30 union days to take your safety glasses. You can’t take your safety glasses unless you have 30 union days. So, yeah. I got lucky my first camera show, I think the office was kind of maybe not up to speed on everything. And nobody checked to make sure I had my safety glasses. So I was good to go. And this stuff happens. I feel bad saying that, I guess but it happens. Because I did a show. I did one day on Stumptown at ABC Disney show and I couldn’t go back because I didn’t have my safety glasses.

Tanya Musgrave:
Anybody I feel like that I’ve had on this podcast that I’ve asked about union or this or that. I mean, I feel like everybody has their own like, loophole, how they got in. You know, that kind of thing. You’re just like, all right, yeah, yeah, I could try that. But you’re just not set up in a certain way to get to that loophole yet. But you know, like, I don’t know. So, I mean, I’m fine with it.

Julio Zapeda:
100%. And I’ve even talked to people who have been in, for a few years, and it’s like, a second that I really work with, he was working as a non union second AC, but he couldn’t get in, he had the days but he struggled so long to get in. And he ended up getting in as a digital utility also. For me, it was kind of a painless process. And even as maybe a month ago, I was working with a camera PA, there’s some shows out there who do, and that’s another way to get into it I think. If you know you want to get into camera, if you’re interested in getting a camera, some shows do carry a camera PA.

Julio Zapeda:
And I was working with a camera PA and I think he’s really good. And I was like, dude, you should like I was coming in replacing as a utility, but I felt that was like his show. I was like, dude you should be the utility on this. I should be the additional. You’re teaching me so much about how the show runs because you’ve been on here the whole time, obviously. And he’s learning and he knows that’s what he wants to do. He was asking me for my opinion, he said, “Do you think I should join?” I’m like, “Dude, absolutely. You should join, right now, call the union.” And same thing he called up but he’s in basically the center of the paperwork that day.

Tanya Musgrave:
Dang. Some of you might be getting a later start than others, you might feel behind. You would relate to Raul Martinez Romero. A script coordinator for the and the upcoming Netflix mini series by Ava DuVernay to be released this fall calling in black and white. I actually got in touch with Raul because of actually the same buddy that introduced me to Mike Wilds and Julio Zapeda. PJ Passenger excellent networker will actually be chatting with him in his own upcoming episode. So stay tuned for that. But for now, we’ll be hearing what Raul will has to say about the practical stuff of paying the bills while we work on our dream.

Raul Martinez Romero:
I just started very late, like I started being a PA when I was, I’m going to say 36 or 37 years old. So everybody has a different life experience. I could never afford going to film school because it was very expensive. I didn’t want to put my parents to that. So I said, I’m going to do something that I can afford myself. So I decided to do English that is. That’s why I did major in English. That is super doable. I can pay it myself having an okay job, part time job blah blah. And then I will start working as whatever. And then whenever I can afford film school, I will you know. So I basically wanted to do it my way without having to depend on anybody. And that’s what I did. And I worked as a teacher, I work in summer camps, I work as a tutor. And then I was saving money to help friends on the weekends with short films and theater here and things there.

Raul Martinez Romero:
So I have been writing all my life but I’m currently still not getting paid for it, which is what happens when you’re a writer or an artist that sometimes you just depend on that moment where somebody reads your script and is like, or being ready. I think it’s so important. And this is something that I want to tell everybody that is listening right now. It’s so important that you’re ready, because opportunities are there. But you need to, and I have been there. Like the reason why I am where I am right now as a script coordinator is because I was ready. First I had samples, I have been writing, I have things ready for people to read if they asked me. I was nice, which it’s surprising. I’m not saying, oh my god, I’m nice. I’m not just bragging, being nice is what you’re supposed to be. But this is such a weird industry that I found people telling me, oh my God, you’re so nice.

Raul Martinez Romero:
And I was like, wait, who have you work with? This is what you expect it to be. But there can be some assholes in this industry, so when you are naturally nice and you do things because you want to improve yourself every day and go that little extra. Having things organized, there’s a room here that is a mess full of boxes, and the paper room, and the copy room, I made sure that that room was organized every day. I was sure that the writers were attended when I was our writers PA. So that way, when there was an opportunity for Tania Saracho, who’s the showrunner or leader, to have an assistant, I had the writers pitching me. Because they like the word. So if I go to work and I am doing the bare minimum, waiting for the time to plug so I can go home, those writers would have never pitched me to Tania, to be the assistant.

Raul Martinez Romero:
So work on those things, work on those relationships, because that is what is going to make you move up. So I can tell you how I entered being a writers PA because it’s also very competitive in Los Angeles right now. Every writer wants to start as a writers PA but it’s very complicated to find. But it’s not impossible. But it’s very complicated. I was taking one of the many screenwriting workshops all over the city, a lot of them work the same, you work on a project and every week you have to work on something for that project [inaudible 00:26:39]is maybe love line and then plan what the show is maybe about.

Raul Martinez Romero:
The second week is character development. The third week is world, the tone and themes. And then, so every week of the workshop, you work on different aspects on your script. And this workshop had a series of working writers, I mean every week to talk to us as our lecturer, if I may. And then you would have to do all your pitching in front of them on their show. So I have a writer come in as a guest. And I was working on this project, it’s about drag queens and an old cabaret club, blah, blah. And I did my pitch, and that week was tone and I’m going to say theme or voice or something like that. This writer came to me after and said, “Oh my god, that was insane. That was so good”. And I was like, “Wait, what? You are telling me this right now? This is insane.”

Raul Martinez Romero:
So he was giving me all these compliments. And I was like, listen, I know I’m not supposed to do this. But I’m going to give you my card, because it’s also kind of like, you don’t want people to give you cards and say, “Hey, hire me>” Or. “Make it happen for me.” No, that is not the way it should be. So I knew it wasn’t okay. But I still did it. And I was like, This is my card. If you ever need anything, just count on me. And then two or three weeks later, he called me and he said, “Hey, if you want to do this much work for this little money, I can use you as an assistant thing.”

Raul Martinez Romero:
So he would have me once a week doing script analysis, helping him with slag lines, transcribing stuff, like all very basic little things. He will bear me a minimal amount. But what happened with that is that I established a relationship with him. That led to him getting stuff. He got stuff for me that was he was working on other shows before but he got stuff [inaudible 00:28:42] for the first season. And then he heard of a position as a writers PA and he pitched me. So that’s how I got it.

Tanya Musgrave:
It’s amazing.

Raul Martinez Romero:
In a way is it depends on who you know, yes. But also it’s not just your friends. I am not friends with this writer. I was just doing a good job for him.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah. Just doing your best.

Raul Martinez Romero:
So he saw that and he was like, okay, I’m done, right. So that’s how I got as a writers PA.

Tanya Musgrave:
Along those lines Taylor Morden than a documentary filmmaker who dropped his film on to Netflix around December of 2020. The last blockbuster, tells his particular angle into the dark world, but from the one man band angle. Michael, my marketing guy sent me a stuff and I got in touch with him through LinkedIn. Man, what a fantastic episode, you guys the power of nostalgia. Anyway, he’s here to give you a bit of a rainbow. After shooting weddings and real estate. There is hope.

Taylor Morden:
I was playing in a band, and we had somebody come shoot a music video for us. And we paid I don’t know $1,000 for the music video at the time. That was a lot. We’re an indie band, but they showed up on set with these DSLRs and I was like, oh, that’s cool. I know how to edit video. And I ended up editing that video and looking at all their footage. And I was like, huh, I wonder how much those cameras cost. And so then it was sort of like, well, we can pay for the next music video or I can just buy a camera. And then we have unlimited music videos. So that was my transition point. As I bought a camera, and made like the DIY backyard slider and shoulder rig at a PVC and did all that indie film stuff had the Home Depot clamp lights.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah, yeah.

Taylor Morden:
Everything that you see and I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of that. And I made a couple music videos. And then other bands would ask, “Hey, can you make us a music video?” “Sure.” And then I made a few dollars doing music videos for a little while. And I was living in Washington DC at the time. And there’s a lot of organizations like the national headquarters for things. And I started somehow weaseled my way into doing corporate CEO videos and business to business, basically a lot of what I had been doing in flash, but in video.

Taylor Morden:
And so I’m interviewing CEOs, and cutting this thing together that they’re going to show at a conference and I started to make a little bit of money doing that. I was doing commercials, like little web spots for businesses. It was like a Groupon knockoff that was local to DC. And I was there video guy and I would do, you know, shoot three or four restaurants and bars in a week. And make a little bit of money that way. I also started doing weddings, which every filmmaker who has weddings in their back pocket never wants to go back. It is what it is. But it was good money. And I was finally…

Tanya Musgrave:
Talking to the choir right now.

Taylor Morden:
Once I added weddings and real estate, and to the corporate videos, and the music videos, I was making a living, and I could pay all the bills. And I was a videographer. Not a filmmaker, never made a film but I was a videographer.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah, I got you.

Taylor Morden:
And I did a couple years of that, and countless weddings, and a lot of commercials, and a lot of real estate. Oh my God, if I had to tour another property with a drone, it’s like, but it’s where the money was.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah, exactly. Whatever puts bread on the table, you know?

Taylor Morden:
Exactly, exactly. And then my wife and I decided Washington DC was not for us, it was too much traffic, too much pressure, everybody’s in a hurry all the time. And we’re grew up on the west coast. So we wanted to move back. About six years ago, now we moved back to the west coast, specifically Bend Oregon, which coincidentally is where the last blockbuster video in the world is. That’s another story. But we moved back to Bend six years ago, and I went from having all of this work with these corporate, I had gotten pretty well entrenched into these organizations, I was doing educational things, and medical things and those jobs don’t exist.

Tanya Musgrave:
Yeah, the client base.

Taylor Morden:
Yeah, I had a client base, they only exist in DC. And so while I was able to keep sort of editing jobs going, stuff I could do remotely, and then fly out maybe once a year to shoot some stuff. That work started to dry up. And I found myself here in a pretty small town in Oregon, with not a lot of work to do. And this sort of skill set that I had built up over all these years. And so I asked my wife if it would be okay if I tried to make a feature documentary, because I have the time I have the equipment. And I have the skills, I think I can do it. I had no idea if I could, I had made like three minute mini corporate documentaries and little music documentaries about bands that were five minutes web based stuff like that.

Taylor Morden:
And so I asked her permission. And I said, I think I can make a documentary. And I picked what I thought was a very attainable subject. It was about a music documentary about a band that I was a fan of in the 90s. They were one hit wonder band. And then they had like…

Tanya Musgrave:
Here’s to life.

Taylor Morden:
Yes, here’s to life is the movie and they had this career that was interesting to me. And I thought, well, I know some other people who would find that interesting. I’ll see if I can’t make a feature film out of that. No idea if I could. I called up the band. Their sort of manager was really the wife of the lead singer. She’s like, I think it would be okay. But we don’t know why anybody would want to make a movie about this. They’re like a working band. They were touring and that’s how they make their money. Just didn’t think people would care about the story and I said, “Well, I care. Let me try. And we’ll see if it’s anything.” And I went, they’re based in Arizona, I flew down with all my equipment, hired a local person, I think probably off of Craigslist to help me out on the shoots. Because you can fly very easily with a camera and lenses and microphones, but C stands and tripods and the lights and the heavy things. It’s like, just hire somebody local who has that stuff.

Taylor Morden:
It’s more than worth it. Oh, yeah. And I learned that on day one of my first feature film. So I had this guy from New York, who was in Arizona for some reason, answered the Craigslist ad. And we went and did this like four days shoot, where I ended up getting, I don’t know, a third of the interviews that were ended up in the movie in that first four day chunk. And then just enough D roll. And I gathered just enough archival stuff from the bands of like, hey, can I borrow all these VHS tapes, I’ll digitize them and send them back to you. Just enough to put together a Kickstarter video. And this was in 2016. And I cut together a Kickstarter video and tried to raise money. And I had no idea how much money a documentary would cost to make. So put up this Kickstarter. And I said, I think I’ll need $5,000. So I set the goal at $5,000. I don’t know. You’re laughing [inaudible 00:36:26].

Tanya Musgrave:
I’m so sorry. Well, because I have been involved with a couple of documentaries.

Taylor Morden:
So you know that it costs more than $5,000 to make a documentary. Now, mind you, I figured I could do so much of it myself. I’m not paying a DP, I’m not paying a DAT, I’m not being a sound person. I’m shooting everything. I’m really paying travel costs, lawyers licensing fees, and that’s pretty much it on that one. The band owned the music. So that was part of my initial plan of like, I know what cost money, what’s the workaround. But it’s weird because they owned, the publishing side, but not the masters because they weren’t a major label back in the 90s. So I had to use live versions and re-record stuff. That’s a nuts and bolts workaround for anybody who’s trying to put a hit song in a movie.

Tanya Musgrave:
Just have your friends do a cover of it. And then…

Taylor Morden:
Yeah. So I’m still so like, budget conscious and DIY, and I’m a musician that in the last blockbuster, we have a couple of hit, like well known hit songs in the movie. And we could barely afford the publishing side. So we have a song in the movie that I played the instruments and sang it myself.

Tanya Musgrave:
Dude get out. That’s amazing.

Taylor Morden:
Because we couldn’t afford to master.

Tanya Musgrave:
David Alan Arnold can tell you more about chutzpah. And it still applies to people starting out across all departments. Emmy Award winning helicopter camera man, his cinematography has covered anything from the Super Bowl and rescue efforts during Hurricane Katrina, to James Bond and most insanely Deadliest Catch. Michael sent his stuff again and was like, you’ve got to get this guy. So I totally spammed his Instagram, send a message through his website, emailed him, hit him from all sides and he wrote back and said, Absolutely. This guy has positively insane stories in his book help from above. But he dropped by to tell us more about how he even got into this crazy corner of the industry.

David Alan Arnold:
I took a few classes in college, but I right away figured out that even back then college degrees were valued. However, I looked at what they taught in college and I said, No thanks. That’s not where I want to go. I don’t want to do typing. And the bizarre prerequisites that you had to take. Biology and stuff, I go, I want to work in film and television. I want to work in movies. Why do I got to go take the ninth class of biology. And so I immediately dropped out of college and I’ll never forget it. The dean of the college had found me and he was making fun of me in front of all the other, there is a roomful of college kids. And when this dean was mocking he’s making fun of me.

David Alan Arnold:
And he was trying to scare me back into college. And he just made fun of me and he had a great time. And he goes, “Where do you think you’re going to end up without a college degree? Who’s going to hire you?” And I said, “Well, I you have a good point. I have no idea how this is going to work.” I just knew I wanted to work in movies. And that didn’t mean that I wanted to spend years of my life paying expensive college tuition for stuff that has nothing to do with the movies. So I left. To his point. I had no way in to anywhere.

David Alan Arnold:
I’m just a hungry kid off the streets. And so what I did was, in those days we didn’t have Google, we had phone books, which were this thick for any town in America. And so I went through the phone book. And I found any company that had anything to do with video or film anything. And I would go to their address, and I would knock on the door, and I would offer to help them.

Tanya Musgrave:
That’s amazing.

David Alan Arnold:
And I would always tell them, “Hey, I’ll work for free. You don’t have to hire me, I’ll just be here. I’ll just help you with whatever’s going on today. And later on, if you want to hire me, you can.” And finally, one of these businesses, the guy at the front desk had enough, because I would come every two weeks. And finally, the guy at the front desk said, “Look, would you get out of here, we have no use for you. All we do are helicopter cameras.” And obviously, I knew nothing about helicopter cameras. So you had a good point. As I said, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I won’t bother you again.” I scratch them off my list. And I quit going there. Three weeks later, the vice president of that company called me.

David Alan Arnold:
And we had the funniest conversation, he could not figure me out. But he was curious, because he had heard that there was some crazy kid who kept showing up at his building. So we had this really funny conversation. And he said, “I could hire anyone from Hollywood, or New York with a huge film resume.” And he said, “That’s what I should do.” And he looked at me and he goes, I’ll tell you what though. He said, the one thing that you have going for you is you seem hungry. Are you hungry? And I said, “Oh, yeah, yeah, I’m hungry.” And he said, I’ll make my decision in a few days and then I’ll let you know who I’m going to hire. And that was it. I went back to my little apartment and I lived in the simplest way you could possibly imagine.

David Alan Arnold:
I lived in a small apartment. And no joke. Most of my furniture came from dumpster diving. I had a television that was this big. That sat on a cardboard box in my living room. And so I’m sitting in front of my cardboard box television, and I’m just thinking over and over my head. I’m thinking man, how do I convince this guy that I am hungry? How do I how do I show him that I really am hungry, I’m going to do a good job. And I was thinking about it over and over again. I took the trash out. It’s just running through my head, and I threw my trash pack in the dumpster, and in the bottom of the dumpster I saw the most perfect thing I had ever seen. And I literally dove headfirst into this dumpster. And I got my hands on an old greasy work booth that was ripped up and someone had thrown it out.

Tanya Musgrave:
Oh gross.

David Alan Arnold:
And I [thought 00:43:10], this is like the Holy Grail. I bought this old workbook back to my apartment and I made on my dining room table, I made a plate and a knife and a fork. And I took a picture of me cutting into the old filthy disgusting workbook with a big smile on my face. Like I was about to have the best meal ever. I didn’t have a computer, but this is before like computers, I actually cut and pasted the picture onto a letter and I typed it on a typewriter. And I mailed it to him. And one of the executives at his company told me one day she said, “You know, when he saw that picture of you eating your book, you’ve got the job.”

David Alan Arnold:
When I first started working at this company that gave me this big break when I was a hungry kid off the streets, I didn’t know how to use any of the fancy aerospace equipment that they manufactured and worked with. But I knew I could clean up the shop because it was a mess. These guys were working on one big movie or TV show after another and they didn’t have time to tidy up the place. And so the shop had probably never been cleaned. It was just piles of junk and dirt. I mean, this was a busy working environment. And all of the work was on the road so the guys weren’t in the shop.

David Alan Arnold:
And so I’m there by myself and no one told me to but I just picked up a broom, and I started sweeping up the shop. And I swept until the entire shop was clean, which took me till about two o’clock in the morning. So at six o’clock everyone’s leaving the building, and they see me and they’re sweeping the floor. After I swept the floor I then started neatening up the place and I would take all the high tech equipment that I didn’t know how to use and I would just make it nice and neat so that when the guys did come in from a movie, they could have a place to work.

David Alan Arnold:
When everyone came back into the building, the next day, I was still there wearing the same clothes. And they didn’t recognize the place it had never been cleaned like that ever. I’ll never forget my boss at the time who was very frank with me, he said, you have no skills, you’re basically useless. He came in and he saw, I was still there the next day wearing the same clothes I had on the day before, and he didn’t recognize his own shop. And he was so excited. He started laughing, and smiling. And he pointed to me, and he goes, “That’s it, you’re going with me on my next movie shoot.” And so that’s a skill is, is just being willing to pitch in and help even if it’s not your job.

Tanya Musgrave:
So I remember someone saying to me that you want your mentor to be two years ahead of you, not 20. And we have seasoned veterans on this podcast, they have amazing stories as well as you know, Moxie this still applies in every way today, even if the market looks a little bit different. But we try to keep things mixed up a little bit with those who are fairly fresh in the industry, too. I would love some feedback on which ones that you enjoy more or which ones are helpful to you. But you guys, there are a ton of roads into the industry, as you’ve heard, but Moxie and time will get you there. I got to tell you, I’ve been contacted by a couple people who just like randomly found this podcast. One of them I got an email taking up the offer extended by Jason Roberts. This is a line producer who a AD’d films like, jurassic world and mission impossible.

Tanya Musgrave:
Anyway, I texted Jason, he said, sure. And the next thing I know, Jason mentioned that he just got off the phone with this guy chatting with him for like an hour. And this is a guy who had just gotten the book ready when you are, Mr. Coppola, Mr. Spielberg, Mr. Crowe. Didn’t know how to pronounce the author’s name and it just so happened that Jason said it in his interview. So it popped up on his Google search. And he figured he would just listen to the episode. And then another guy was actually an animator wanting to get into film, looking to shoot his first feature this coming year and also interested in podcasting, did a Google search and actually, I think was getting into Alex Ferrari’s content on Indie Film Hustle.

Tanya Musgrave:
He saw my interview with him and then listened to my personal story, realized that I was just starting out in podcasting, too. And before you know it, we’re chatting on Insta and have like nearly a two hour call while I was road tripping back home. He has a passion for practicality, helping in connection too, so it’s possible he might come on the show too. Like you guys, people are so much more accessible than you think. And they’re a lot more willing to help than you think. One of the things this new buddy mentioned that I just love is that, high tide raises all boats. When we all help each other and are genuinely happy for each other’s accomplishments, which can be hard for some, you cannot deny that your journey will not only be a lot more enjoyable, but will likely get you to your goals faster. I know that you’re out there putting up with a lot and getting life done. Don’t forget to enjoy the journey. Be well and God bless. We’ll see you next time on the practical filmmaker.