What happens when you question your career in film?
This week Corey and Emily Critser share their journey of leaving LA for the South East and launching a commercial photography business. In this episode they share what skills transitioned from film to photography, bidding on jobs, and setting their rates.
Watch to see how their risk paid off.
Key points:
1:09 – Transitioning from filmmaking to commercial photography
8:37 – Blending and photo and video projects
16:14 – Bidding jobs
22:23 – Working with an agent
31:22 – Full-day shoot price range
34:45 – Favorite gear
37:37 – Something going wrong
Links
Transcript
Corey Critser (00:00):
You have every right, as a creative freelancer, to ask what their budget is. They may not know, but they know.
Tanya Musgrave (00:08):
Mm-hmm.
Corey Critser (00:09):
They have a number, because Emily will ask, “Okay, well is your budget $200, $2,000, $20,000?” And they’re like, “Oh no, it’s 5,000,” you’re like, “Oh, look at that, you had a number.”
Tanya Musgrave (00:25):
You had a number.
Corey Critser (00:25):
Okay.
Tanya Musgrave (00:26):
Welcome to The Practical Filmmaker, an educational podcast brought to you by the Filmmaker Institute and Sunscreen Film Festival, where industry professionals talk nuts and bolts and the steps they took to find their success today.
(00:37):
On today’s show commercial photographer duo Emily and Corey Critser from Lanewood Studio talk about the options they faced when leaving the film industry, and how film guided their experience in a brand new space. Find the whole transcripts and more at thepracticalfilmmaker.com. I’m your host, Tanya Musgrave, and today we’re talking to Emily and Corey Critser, together they run Lanewood Studio, a commercial photography company based in Chattanooga Tennessee, where they shoot marketing photos for ad agencies, such as Arc Worldwide, Johnson Group, and the Vayner Company Sasha Group. Welcome to the show.
Corey Critser (01:07):
Thanks so much.
Emily Critser (01:07):
Hey.
Tanya Musgrave (01:10):
Hi. All right, so this is a little different than our normal format for the podcast, and not just because there’s two of them, or because there’s also an adorable baby, if you can see on the video, but because unlike our other guests, you guys have decided to actually step away from film. But because this is a practical podcast I wanted to explore the questions we sometimes do when it comes to when or why we’d ever decide to step away, because that’s valuable too. So why don’t you guys outline your experience from film, and through film, to where you are today?
Corey Critser (01:48):
I studied film and television at Savannah College of Art and Design, that’s where Emily and I met. We did this in Los Angeles together, working separately on odd jobs. Emily, what were you doing in LA?
Emily Critser (01:59):
I worked for a stunt coordinator director and was on a producing track. I met this one woman who was a producer, her husband was a showrunner, she owned businesses. I thought she was so cool, I was like, I’m going to be this lady one day. And then I realized she didn’t have time for her kids on the weekend, and there’s no water. It was a great place to be when you’re 20s for a while, and learn a lot, but we really wanted to work together, like we met. So we did a 100 day road trip around America and looked for a new city to move to to start a company together, And we landed in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And why did we get into commercial photography, Corey? Why did we make the switch?
Corey Critser (02:43):
Thank you for asking.
Tanya Musgrave (02:44):
You guys are naturals.
Corey Critser (02:49):
We were work working separately, and I was trying to climb the ladder in the film world to get to what I thought was going to be a director, and that just, dreams shatter when you get out to LA and realize that’s going to be a long road. And I had a good time, learned a lot, as you do, but we realized that not seeing each other all the time, and working long hours was, just going to be really hard.
(03:13):
And then I worked, I got an opportunity to work with the photographer on a ad campaign when a friend of mine had to leave town, and I just got to be on a photo shoot for the first time, a real professional commercial photo shoot and I was like, wow, this is so different. These people are really breezy and cool, there’s music playing, no one’s hollering to quiet for sound, no one’s hollering about the schedule, it’s just breezy and cool and fun. I looked at that photographer, I was like, I want to be that guy, I want to do that. And he also worked with his wife, so I thought that was really cool, I was like, I think we can do this, actually.
(03:51):
So we decided to do that road trip around the country, find somewhere that was in a better quality of life, somewhere cost of living was a little bit easier, and we found a spot here in Chattanooga that just fit that dream, and it’s been going really well.
Emily Critser (04:09):
I think there’s a lot to, so we knew that we could start a commercial photography business at the top scale a lot easier than we could start a top scale film business, because the gear is just easier to get into, you can take on more projects, and also moving to the southeast, we were given so many opportunities here that we weren’t given in other places, and that let us grow as artists.
Tanya Musgrave (04:44):
Really? Could you give me an example?
Emily Critser (04:47):
Yeah. So we did this 100 day road around America, and we photographed and camped in 40 national and state parks, and we looked for a new city to move to. After the road trip we got back to LA, we sent out emails, and promotionals-
Corey Critser (05:04):
We were gone three months.
Emily Critser (05:06):
Three months, everybody that we worked for before had moved on.
Corey Critser (05:10):
Totally forgot about us.
Emily Critser (05:11):
We sent out, I don’t know, probably 100 to different people, and we didn’t hear back boo from anybody that wanted to work with us. So we decided to move to Chattanooga.
Corey Critser (05:22):
I mean, we tried.
Emily Critser (05:22):
We sent out promotional, we did the same thing here, we sent out promotional materials, we walked into businesses, and within the first year, I mean, we were running and gunning, we got so many opportunities from the chamber of commerce, just the small business communities here, and so because we got opportunities to shoot, to get hired, we got better.
Tanya Musgrave (05:47):
Gotcha, yeah yeah.
Corey Critser (05:49):
You can do you do personal projects all you want, and that’s great for your promotion, but unless you’re actually getting those jobs, showing that you can do the job, that’s just what you weren’t getting the opportunities as much in LA, I think.
Emily Critser (06:02):
Well, and it’s the same way in film, since we’ve been able to shoot more, and shoot all the time, and now we can pick and choose what we want to do, and who we want to work with.
Corey Critser (06:14):
I mean, we can do that in the film world as well, it’s just you’re jumping from project to project, and you’re not always the one in charge of what goes on.
Tanya Musgrave (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, and in general film is just more of an expensive thing, you have to have more people involved. It’s just the nature of it, you have a whole entire crew. And I know that photo shoots can require a lot of crew too, but you don’t need three different people just to run the camera, it’s just different.
Emily Critser (06:41):
Right.
Tanya Musgrave (06:41):
For sure.
Corey Critser (06:41):
It’s totally different, yeah, and I loved being on the film sets when we were on them, I loved having that family bonding of a three month long adventure together, and how we’re just doing that, but we’re doing two weeks.
Tanya Musgrave (06:49):
So you guys shot a feature together.
Corey Critser (06:54):
We did, we did a first and second AD on a future film, The Space Jockey Pursuit, right out of college, she was still in college actually, and then the last thing we did in LA was produce a short film for her friend, Sean, that was tremendously-
Emily Critser (07:13):
It turned out really great.
Corey Critser (07:14):
It turned out gorgeous.
Emily Critser (07:15):
It turned out great, the production was-
Corey Critser (07:16):
I mean, it was beautiful.
Emily Critser (07:17):
We did what we could on no budget.
Corey Critser (07:20):
On a low, no, or deferred budget.
Emily Critser (07:23):
It won awards, I mean, it was good.
Corey Critser (07:24):
It won awards and it did great. And we were like, that was fun, and I just realized, I was like, but this just isn’t where I want to be.
Tanya Musgrave (07:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily Critser (07:30):
I think what’s fun about the photo world over the film world is you just, having an ADD mind, it’s great because you get to do so many different projects. We could do three projects in a week. The turnaround time is faster, which is just really fun, because you just keep getting to meet new people, and have new experiences, but a project can be done in two days, or two weeks, or two months.
Corey Critser (07:59):
It could take a month to put the whole-
Emily Critser (08:02):
Depending on the scope.
Corey Critser (08:03):
Depending on the scope, to put the whole job together.
Emily Critser (08:04):
And it’s so fun to see out there. The more projects you do, the more you see out in the world, and that’s really gratifying.
Tanya Musgrave (08:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily Critser (08:14):
And having a party on set is really, really fun, we try to have a party.
Corey Critser (08:20):
You know.
Emily Critser (08:20):
Yeah, you came on a shoot.
Tanya Musgrave (08:20):
Yeah, I can vouch for that, I can vouch for that, I was able to assist for them for a day, and it was a blast, and very, very chill, like they were saying before. So you guys are predominantly just photography, not film, no crossover, or do you do, for ad agencies, are they parallel with other films going on? Or not films, but commercials.
Emily Critser (08:47):
There’s a blend right now of photo and video called, the term is motion, and it’s GIFs, it’s stop motion, so we do a lot of stop motion for especially social media accounts, and it’s really simple, because you have your strobe set up, you have your item, and it can just dance or do something, or tickle the imagination.
Corey Critser (09:12):
Well you’ve seen Vanity Fair covers in a store.
Tanya Musgrave (09:16):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (09:16):
And then you also see them on Apple News+ where the model’s now moving a little bit.
Tanya Musgrave (09:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Corey Critser (09:22):
So the photographer is doing, we don’t call that we’re going to shoot a video or a commercial, we’re just doing motion. So now we’re just going to turn off our strokes, flip on our, we call them hot lights, but everything now is LEDs, or the photographers call them continuous lighting. I still call them hot lights.
Tanya Musgrave (09:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Corey Critser (09:42):
So you flip those on and then you’ve got your motion ready to go. And having our film background, having our that skill of being able to just flip it really quickly, does give us the advantage on some jobs. When they’re like, “We want to also do video,” we’re like, “Yeah, we can throw in some motion, but if you want a full on ad, we’re going to need a whole crew, film crew, for that.” So there’s some crossover, but it’s not, and sometimes you’ll see a huge, huge Honda ad done where you have the photographer shoots all the still campaign for Honda’s new line, and then that photographer can also direct the commercial, he can be the cinematographer for that, and director, and just get a camera operator to run that. So then Honda’s client, or Honda as a client, gets everything done at once, and that’s pretty appetizing to them.
Tanya Musgrave (10:37):
Okay. So when you’re talking about doing motion, I remember that there was a trend going around that was, it was very odd, it wasn’t stop motion, but it wasn’t a video either, where everything else was completely still like a photograph, but there was one thing that was-
Emily Critser (10:57):
Oh, a cinemagraph.
Tanya Musgrave (10:57):
Cinemagraph, okay.
Emily Critser (10:57):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (10:59):
That’s a video that you shoot.
Emily Critser (11:00):
Yeah, it tickles your mind.
Corey Critser (11:02):
But you pause everything, you mask out everything you don’t want moving.
Tanya Musgrave (11:04):
Mask out everything else, gotcha, gotcha.
Corey Critser (11:06):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (11:06):
Is that something that you guys do as well? Do you cross over in that area?
Emily Critser (11:15):
Oh yeah.
Corey Critser (11:15):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (11:15):
Okay.
Emily Critser (11:15):
I would say that’s-
Corey Critser (11:15):
I don’t edit that, but I can shoot it for you.
Emily Critser (11:15):
And this is an interesting world, we do consume a lot of high end film, with all of our streaming and binging, but there is a lot that we watch that’s so short, and a lot of advertising has to do with tiny little bits. And so I think we’re really good at those tiny bits, that’s what we do.
Corey Critser (11:33):
I think we’re great at those little bits. I love it, because I love shooting, like these headphones look great as they are, but wouldn’t it be funny if they danced off the table too?
Emily Critser (11:40):
Yeah, and it’s fun, it’s so fun.
Tanya Musgrave (11:43):
I think that there was this one, okay, so there was a photographer that I used to follow, his name is Jeremy Cowart, and he’s in Nashville.
Corey Critser (11:51):
Oh, he’s good.
Tanya Musgrave (11:51):
Yeah, yeah, and just an artist in a lot of senses of word, he’ll do fine art, and all that fun stuff too. And there was something that he did, it was called a lightograph, and it was kind of like what that is. And I forget, I know that he was, I don’t know, probably selling a workshop on how he did it, I don’t know, but it was specifically about, it was a video that wasn’t a video, same thing from before, except for what was changing was the lighting set up.
Corey Critser (12:23):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (12:25):
So it was, yeah, just a still photograph, and all of the-
Corey Critser (12:28):
But the lights move.
Tanya Musgrave (12:29):
Yeah, all the lights are moving or all. It’s not a GIF, it’s not a video, it’s not a photograph, it’s a lightograph, it’s something completely different.
Emily Critser (12:38):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (12:39):
Yeah. So visual and practical crossover, there’s that. I was curious about some of the things that did translate well, or some things that didn’t translate well from film to photography.
Emily Critser (12:53):
Something I’ve seen in the difference between most photographers and most filmmakers is I feel like most filmmakers generally have a concept of light. I do find a large education gap with most photographers I meet.
Corey Critser (13:12):
They know their camera, and move back and forth.
Emily Critser (13:13):
They know their camera, they know natural lighting, but I think something that we brought that separates us from other photographers is our concept of an entire production, putting something together.
Tanya Musgrave (13:25):
Mm-hmm.
Corey Critser (13:25):
Well, it’s having the skills to say, okay, we need to do this portrait, but it’s storming outside, and we don’t have any natural light, we have the skills to create a sunset shot.
Emily Critser (13:36):
Yeah. We had an assistant, an old assistant here on Friday, and he was remembering a shoot we did in Denver in 2019 where it was January in Denver, it was cloudy and cold.
Corey Critser (13:50):
There was snow on the ground.
Emily Critser (13:51):
And there was snow on the ground, and we had to create a summer scene.
Corey Critser (13:52):
We were shooting ads they were put out in summer, and we were like, oh my gosh.
Emily Critser (13:56):
So we knew what to do, we got the Astro Turf out, models-
Corey Critser (14:02):
Racked the snow away.
Emily Critser (14:02):
Raked the snow away, Astro Turf, models were ready with the jacket, but otherwise we had a hard, bright light with-
Corey Critser (14:11):
Some warming gels on it.
Emily Critser (14:12):
Warming gels on it.
Corey Critser (14:13):
CTO.
Emily Critser (14:14):
And so it looked great, it looked great. The guy was sweating from summertime football. Yeah, so just being able to go into any scene and knowing how to light, no matter what your conditions are, I think are something that we brought over from the film world, and telling a story.
Corey Critser (14:36):
Well, and the gear too. I mean, you have to use that gear.
Emily Critser (14:39):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (14:40):
So when you come over from, even if you’re, whether you’re a PA on the set, or assistant to art department, you are familiar with gear, you just know what a C-stand is back and forth, because you see them all the time you use them. And a lot of photography, just starting, you just don’t get that opportunity, I think, so you’re just used to light stands and bounces. And that’s fine, a lot of people do have a wonderful career with just natural light, and I think that’s fascinating, but having the ability to use this gear is pretty great, and I love gear.
Emily Critser (15:14):
I feel like the film world is more open to every kind of technical tool available, and photo just, I don’t know. I feel like sometimes they use more of the minimum.
Tanya Musgrave (15:28):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (15:28):
Sometimes it’s neat, but I think that’s true. I mean, until my clients looking at the screen going, “I love this,” I’m going to keep adding stuff and keep trying to make it awesome.
Emily Critser (15:36):
Yeah, and we have strobes, and we have continuous lights, we have Kinos, we have a sky panel, and I think that’s something that a lot of photographers aren’t familiar with, are the Kino.
Tanya Musgrave (15:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Emily Critser (15:47):
But yeah, there’s so much you can do, and being able to switch over from photo to motion.
Corey Critser (15:53):
Go to a festival, play with the gear.
Emily Critser (15:55):
Yeah, it’s a good time.
Corey Critser (15:57):
It’s a good time.
Tanya Musgrave (15:58):
So you’re talking about the integration of film between the film industry and the photo, just having to do with gear. How about the business side of things, like bidding? Bidding is a big thing.
Emily Critser (16:12):
Mm-hmm.
Corey Critser (16:14):
Bidding is a big thing. I don’t know, I didn’t really do any bidding when I was in film and TV, it was just, God, I hope there’s something good on entertainmentcareers.net, or someone’s got something for me.
Emily Critser (16:30):
Mandy.com.
Corey Critser (16:30):
And mandy.com, yeah, I was all over it. I know as a director your name gets passed around, “You should use this guy,” or you work for a production company and that production company gets hired to do the direction for an ad, or something. So I’m not really familiar with that side of it, but I am familiar with bidding photography, which is really challenging, but so rewarding when you win.
Emily Critser (16:55):
I would say the biggest thing is learning how to hustle. Your time is absolutely an asset that you need to take and figure out how you can grow your business. We started out with the Small Business Development Center, we went there, we got classes, we learned QuickBooks, streamlining our business and just hustling, I think the film industry taught us to network, to hustle, to show.
Corey Critser (17:17):
That’s true, 1000% that’s true.
Tanya Musgrave (17:17):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (17:17):
You learn how to get at it.
Emily Critser (17:23):
You got to talk about yourself a little bit, you got to spend your time doing the things that are going to lead you to what you want to do, because being a freelancer is, it’s a certain kind of thing, but you can do really well, you can succeed, there are resources out there to help you.
Tanya Musgrave (17:40):
Coming from film versus photography, learning how to bid was definitely a new skill that you had to develop, and legitimizing yourself in a way. What were some of the resources that you went to to create a legitimate front when you were putting in bids?
Corey Critser (18:00):
You got to go to festivals.
Tanya Musgrave (18:03):
Mm-hmm.
Corey Critser (18:04):
We met some wonderful people at the Palm Springs Photo Festival. It’s a great gathering of fine art photographers, and some commercial photographers, and you just meet people, and you just ask so many questions, and don’t be embarrassed. I’m like, “Dude, licensing, I have no idea what I’m doing,” and they’re going to be like, “Yeah, no, nobody really knows,” and that will lead you to the resources that you need, like a potential agent, who may not represent you, but she may do a one off if the job is big enough. And you just keep those people in your pocket, just talk to people.
Emily Critser (18:42):
There’s so many aspects of legitimizing yourself too. I think one thing, like in the first year we learned so many things. I was talking about the Small Business Development Center, I took a QuickBooks class and it was like $100, and I learned how to write an invoice, because that’s usually, I don’t know, we didn’t learn, we got our bachelor in fine arts and they didn’t teach us how to write an estimate.
Tanya Musgrave (19:05):
Yeah.
Emily Critser (19:07):
Yeah, seriously.
Corey Critser (19:07):
Not one.
Emily Critser (19:08):
So there are resources even locally, no matter where you are in the country. One of the best seminars we went to at one of these festivals was by an amazing photographer, top of the field, called Art Streiber, and he shoots for all of the huge magazines, every celebrity.
Corey Critser (19:27):
He does Vanity Fair, Entertainment Weekly covers.
Emily Critser (19:27):
Yes, we had a seminar with him and I asked him, I said, “If there was one superpower you have, what is it?” And he said, “My systems.” Look around, look at your systems, how can you do things better? Do your invoices look good? Looks are very important, especially in a visual world, if you want to be a professional you got to play the part. Do your invoices look good. Does your website work? Do your emails have a nice signature? How are you presented? We went with Lanewood Studio over Corey Photography, or whatever, because we thought people would think, oh, a studio, they must be a lot bigger than they are.
Tanya Musgrave (20:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Emily Critser (20:09):
So if they just want something small, we can do that, but if they want an entire production, it sounds like we’re bigger.
Tanya Musgrave (20:17):
Mm-hmm. So besides coming up with the name and turning down certain gigs, how did you position your company to be able to get higher bids, or even know where to start?
Corey Critser (20:33):
You’ve got to send promos, promotionals out to agencies that you think you’d be a good fit for, and you have to show them that you can do a big shoot without the direction from an agency. They want to see that, oh, your own personal mind, what you’ve done, what you come up with is just as good as what an agency might be able to come up with. They may not hire you that day, they may not hire you that year, but if you send them over and over and over again, three years later, “Hey, would you like to bid on this job? The budgets $250,000, it’s for Shutterfly,” and you’re like, and it’s the big whale, you finally got it. And you’re scrambling to get your agent together and everything, and you bid.
(21:18):
But sending out promos, and going to portfolio reviews. You can always work on yourself, and you’ve got to sit through and have someone critique your work for you. Critiquing, whether you’re in film or photo or fashion, any kind of art critique is the most important thing that you’re going to do as an artist to get better. And it can be really brutal sometimes, and people will tell you you aren’t marketable, and they say, “I don’t like this.”
Emily Critser (21:43):
I only partially agree, I only partially agree that portfolio reviews are-
Corey Critser (21:46):
And that’s fine that you do, we’ve been back and forth.
Emily Critser (21:51):
The point of our success.
Corey Critser (21:52):
I don’t think it’s the point of our success, but I think it has led us to some big jobs.
Emily Critser (21:54):
I think what has led to big jobs are taking on a couple of personal projects, I think it’s taking a couple of personal projects that will lead to bigger things, I think that’s helped us more than portfolio reviews.
Corey Critser (22:09):
I think so.
Emily Critser (22:09):
And I think that also what has led to, I think a really big way to get a big budget project is to have the balls to bid high. I think sometimes people get a big shoot on their radar and they get so scared of losing it that they bid too low. You have to be ballsy enough to bid appropriately.
Corey Critser (22:32):
You got to have guts.
Emily Critser (22:32):
If it’s going to take tens of thousands of dollars, it’s going to take tens of thousands of dollars.
Corey Critser (22:37):
Well, there’s just so many factors that go into it, and our first quote, we didn’t just throw that number out there. I mean, my first quote that was a big number, I was sweating, I was sweating, I was freaking out, because I had no idea, are they going to go for us? Am I worth this much? Is the work I’m going to create that valuable?
Tanya Musgrave (22:53):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (22:54):
And there’s just so many factors involved. And then really what helped us go to that next level, I believe, was finding our part-time agent. She is just a fountain of knowledge. She was like, “You got a big job, come to me,” and then I’ll just call her with all these questions I have, I’m like, “How do you know that?” She knows the market in all the different parts of the country, and I can ask her anything about that.
Tanya Musgrave (23:21):
Mm-hmm. So you guys had mentioned your agent before, and how she’s your part-time agent. I’m curious how that works, number one, and number two, where one would find an agent, and what she does for you.
Corey Critser (23:35):
All right, I’ll tell you real quick how we got connected. So we hired an expensive marketing company, called Workbook. They represent photographers as just a broad marketing company.
Tanya Musgrave (23:48):
Okay.
Corey Critser (23:49):
Through that we met a producer there who suggested we go to Palm Springs Photo Festival and show our work and go to seminars, we did. While we were there we met a really dope photographer who we got pizza with one night and he said, we asked him a bunch of questions and he said, “You should just ask my agent.” And I said, “How can I do that?” And he just gave me her information. And so knowing him led us to her.
Tanya Musgrave (24:18):
Gotcha.
Corey Critser (24:20):
And then I didn’t contact her, I was too scared to just cold call reach out, “I have questions.” But we got a really, really, really big job offer that we didn’t know what to do with, it was with a large ad agency out of Chicago. And it was such a big offer, it was so out of the blue, we thought it was a scam, for sure.
Tanya Musgrave (24:42):
Wow.
Corey Critser (24:42):
Someone called us for our banking information to add us to their account for accounts payable, we were like, yeah right, yeah right.
Tanya Musgrave (24:49):
Are you also a prince?
Corey Critser (24:51):
Yeah, and then the producer called and said, “No, they weren’t supposed to call you so quickly,” so this is real. And the bid was, just the bid alone, the request for proposal, was like 20 pages.
Tanya Musgrave (25:05):
Oh my gosh.
Corey Critser (25:06):
What they were expecting and what they wanted. So we called her, and she was a sweetheart. She’s like, “I’m happy to do this for you, I do this all the time for one offs for people that I like.” And she liked our work enough, and liked us enough, that she was willing to do it.
Tanya Musgrave (25:21):
Mm-hmm, wow, wow, wow. And so she put together the proposal for you?
Corey Critser (25:27):
She does all the negotiations.
Tanya Musgrave (25:30):
Okay.
Corey Critser (25:30):
So we’re responsible for the proposal, our approach, and she just suggests numbers that we should have. I’m like, “What should my price be?” And she says, “What do you charge?” I’m like, This is my price,” and she goes, “Well, in this area it should be this high.”
Emily Critser (25:47):
I think what was so valuable about her was her saying, “Oh, this number needs to be higher, this number needs to be higher,” because if it was too low we wouldn’t be taken seriously.
Tanya Musgrave (25:58):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (25:58):
That’s right, and I said, “Well, how do I know?” She said, “Well, in the Chicago market you might be this, you might be 5,500, or 4,500, in New York you might be 6,500. You’re down Tennessee, in Chattanooga, Atlanta area it might be around 3,500, it just depends on where you’re shooting and who you’re shooting with and what the market will bear for that area.”
Tanya Musgrave (26:18):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (26:19):
She just throws numbers out there, and she just was really, really helpful in putting that all together. And it’s just something you just don’t learn in school, you just learn by assisting photographers.
Emily Critser (26:30):
And it’s always changing.
Corey Critser (26:31):
Yeah, the market is always changing, and she talked about that a lot too.
Tanya Musgrave (26:34):
Mm-hmm. Well, we had talked about this a bit too, Emily, just about people talking about money and being very open about rates. I mean, I know that we had mentioned this story before, but I had a mentor in LA when I first went out there, and a little bit down the road he was saying, “You are in direct competition with me and all the advice is just, I’m just going to have to go dark on that for now.” And I was shocked, because to a degree you want to be able to talk about rates with other people so you don’t undercut the industry, number one.
Emily Critser (27:18):
Right
Corey Critser (27:18):
Sure, which is a problem in some areas.
Tanya Musgrave (27:19):
Yeah, yeah, and additionally, I mean these days I think people are getting more comfortable putting their salaries and their rates out there, just to bring attention to even just pay disparities, or all of that fun stuff too. I mean, when you’re entering into an industry it’s very important to know where you stand, maybe where you belong, I don’t know. Maybe along those lines of just, hey, until I learn how to do X, Y, Z, I shouldn’t probably try, or I don’t know, I don’t know. In any case, I always find it extremely valuable to find people who are willing to talk about rates on this podcast, which is why, I mean, everybody who I have on here, before we start rolling I ask them where they are on the spectrum of comfort level to talk about this kind of stuff.
Corey Critser (28:18):
It’s that sensitive.
Emily Critser (28:19):
Yeah, it’s crazy.
Corey Critser (28:20):
I mean, some people want to keep it close to their heart. I’m not telling every single person I meet my rates, it’s just not something that comes out, but if someone’s directly asking me, “What do you charge?” I’m like, “Well, that’s a big question.”
Tanya Musgrave (28:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Corey Critser (28:32):
What do you want? What am I doing? I don’t know, for some jobs we could be really high on that spectrum, we could be around, if I can pull out five grand for a full day shoot, I’m happy.
Emily Critser (28:47):
And that’s just your creative fee.
Corey Critser (28:48):
That’s just the creative fee with retouching.
Emily Critser (28:54):
There’s gear.
Corey Critser (28:55):
Then there’s a bunch of stuff you can add on. You should be able to charge for your gear, because it’s expensive, but a lot of this stuff, then there’s items you put in your bid that are negotiable stuff to throw out. That’s what my agent told me, she said, “We’ll put your gear in there, we’ll set your gear at 1200 a day,” and I was like, “That seems high for what I’m bringing,” and she’s like, “It’s just something to throw out, it case they’re like, “Hey, this is too high.”
Tanya Musgrave (29:21):
An option to say no to.
Corey Critser (29:22):
And she’s like, “Great, we can just nix that.”
Tanya Musgrave (29:23):
Okay, okay, yeah.
Corey Critser (29:24):
Yeah, so you can always add that stuff in. If I’m bringing more gear than I initially thought then I’m going to add it on there. But there are a lot of people in the smaller markets who just don’t have that kind of budget, so you got to cut everything down, and then you got to find what you’re comfortable with working on. If you’re an entry level photographer, and you don’t have a big portfolio, you can’t go out for 3,500 a day, you just can’t, you can’t start there, that’s too high, you can start around-
Emily Critser (29:53):
Two.
Corey Critser (29:54):
What?
Emily Critser (29:55):
1500, 2000 a day.
Corey Critser (29:56):
Yeah, I think that’s fair.
Emily Critser (30:03):
Depending on how good you are.
Corey Critser (30:03):
It depends on also how good you are.
Emily Critser (30:03):
And I think the reason we got a lot of jobs, the reason that we win a lot of bids, I think we put out a really good product, but the other thing is organization, people can tell that we’re going to be on time, we’re going to be communicative, so there are a lot of business and organizational aspects I think that can put you above other people.
Corey Critser (30:24):
With big jobs, every bid comes with a proposal, and Emily does gorgeous proposal and it is, it’s very long, it has-
Emily Critser (30:34):
A lot of pictures.
Corey Critser (30:35):
A lot of pictures, it has who we are, what the job we’re doing is, what our approach is going to be, and how we think we can accomplish the shoot, who we think what your brand is.
Emily Critser (30:49):
Yeah, I could share with you later if you want.
Tanya Musgrave (30:51):
Yeah.
Emily Critser (30:51):
But I went online to a graphic template website and I got a brochure and I just changed it, I changed it to say what we have to say, because in the commercial world, the person you’re talking to is probably not the person making the decision on whether to hire you or not.
Corey Critser (31:09):
Systems and looking professional, it will take you far.
Emily Critser (31:12):
Yeah.
Tanya Musgrave (31:13):
So what range of bids could someone who’s entering into this field expect for pay? And this is for the shoot, is this for the project, and this is, I would say, more along the lines of motion for these purposes, if that ends up being more, or if there’s any integration with a film studio that is coming alongside you, or what that even looks like.
Emily Critser (31:43):
A full day shoot for us can range between, I would say, 3,500 and maybe about 5,000 to about, I mean, you can go up from there 20,000 a day, if you have a full crew, models.
Tanya Musgrave (31:59):
Mm-hmm.
Corey Critser (32:00):
And you can do a $90,000 photo shoot and your cut is a fifth of that.
Tanya Musgrave (32:07):
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Corey Critser (32:08):
Because you have so much travel and crew, and crew to pay for, and whatnot. And then, honestly, when it comes to just bidding, a lot of what I do is just gut, and I know people don’t want to hear that.
Emily Critser (32:22):
You got a tough gut.
Corey Critser (32:24):
Yeah.
Emily Critser (32:24):
And if it were up to me, we’d probably still be making pennies on the dollar.
Corey Critser (32:28):
Yeah. Because I look at the brand and I’m like, okay, this is a big brand, I know they have a lot of money, this looks like an annual shoot, so they do this every year, meaning they’re only going to use it for a year, and where are they going to use it? Oh, these are going to be in Total Wines around the store, or around the world, or is it just going to be North America?
Emily Critser (32:49):
Social media?
Corey Critser (32:49):
And I’m like, this number. And I ponder that number, and I have sleepless nights over that number, and then I submit it.
Emily Critser (32:58):
We’ve been lucky enough to get-
Corey Critser (32:59):
Lucky enough to get it. Now it’s great to have an agent because she can negotiate on your behalf for you and change that, and sometimes people just look at that number and go, oh, you’re not for us.
Tanya Musgrave (33:11):
Okay, okay.
Corey Critser (33:11):
And I’m like, “Well I’m happy to,” I always say, “I’m happy to adjust to stay competitive in our quotes.”
Tanya Musgrave (33:17):
That’s a good line, yeah, yeah, that is.
Corey Critser (33:20):
Yeah, because I am, I want to stay competitive. But if the competitive market is thousands below me then I’m like, maybe this isn’t the shoot for us.
Tanya Musgrave (33:27):
Yeah, for sure.
Corey Critser (33:29):
And then you just walk away.
Tanya Musgrave (33:30):
Yeah.
Emily Critser (33:30):
Refer it to somebody who needs it.
Corey Critser (33:31):
We refer it.
Tanya Musgrave (33:33):
Ooh, yes. And that’s still useful too because they can still see you as a resource too.
Corey Critser (33:39):
And I’ll tell you this, for everyone listening also, you have every right as a creative freelancer to ask what their budget is. They may not know, but they know. They have a number, because Emily will ask, “Okay, well is your budget $200, $2,000, $20,000?” And they’re like, “Oh my, no, it’s 5,000,” and you’re like, “Oh, look at that, you had a number.”
Tanya Musgrave (34:06):
You had a number.
Corey Critser (34:08):
Okay. And then ask them, what are they going to use these for? To help you, you just ask a lot of questions. It seems annoying, and you’re worried you’re going to lose the job, but it’s important to know, what are these going to be used for? What’s your budget? What are your expectations of me? What’s going on?
Tanya Musgrave (34:24):
I think a big takeaway for our filmmakers is definitely not to shy away from communication, because there’s a lot more that can be asked that a lot of people, they don’t think that they can, or that they’re allowed to, so I think that’s definitely something that can cross over there, for sure. So now I want to ask about the tools of your trade, and what is your favorite gear or gadget that is an old reliable, or a resource, or what have you, but we like to go with the old standby first. Oh my gosh.
Emily Critser (35:01):
Okay, so that is a, for those listening, that’s a tattoo Corey got about two months ago of a C47.
Tanya Musgrave (35:07):
Oh my gosh.
Corey Critser (35:09):
It’s my favorite tool.
Tanya Musgrave (35:12):
I have never seen that before, let me see it again.
Corey Critser (35:16):
Besides my camera, it’s something I use all the time.
Emily Critser (35:18):
Yep.
Corey Critser (35:19):
I’m always using them.
Tanya Musgrave (35:21):
That’s amazing.
Corey Critser (35:23):
And I always keep them on my sleeve when I’m working, so I grab them.
Tanya Musgrave (35:25):
So literally right where your tattoo is, you hook it.
Corey Critser (35:29):
Yeah, that’s why it’s there, yeah.
Emily Critser (35:34):
We got these really cool new lights.
Tanya Musgrave (35:36):
Ooh, that leads me to the next question.
Emily Critser (35:37):
We got a lot of tools.
Tanya Musgrave (35:39):
Your favorite new gadgets, the latest purchase.
Emily Critser (35:42):
Oh yeah.
Corey Critser (35:43):
We got these wands from GoDocs that are surprisingly bright.
Emily Critser (35:50):
So we have Kinos, we have Kino FreeStyles, but these are really cool, Corey just bought these, they’re wireless.
Tanya Musgrave (35:58):
Nice.
Emily Critser (35:59):
It’s like a wand, you can change… Here, you tell them about it. I don’t really know much yet.
Corey Critser (36:06):
Well, I’m not endorsing GoDocs, though I do like GoDocs.
Emily Critser (36:06):
GoDocs.
Corey Critser (36:11):
GoDocs. This is the wand, it’s RGB, so it does all the colors. And then it’s got really fun modes, like lightning storm. I like to use this one.
Emily Critser (36:21):
Don’t do that to the baby.
Corey Critser (36:22):
Well, Jones, don’t look this way. But we’re doing that macro eye project so we wanted some lights that would be really thin that we could put close to a subject without making a really big catch light in the eye.
Tanya Musgrave (36:37):
Nice.
Corey Critser (36:38):
So that’s my new favorite toy.
Tanya Musgrave (36:41):
Okay.
Corey Critser (36:43):
The wand. And it’s great too for doing ads where you just need a little microwave light, or you’re in the car and you need the little car light, or something. You used to take Kino tubes out and just connect the Kino tube by itself, but now we have all this wireless LED stuff. I sound so old when I say that.
Tanya Musgrave (37:00):
It’s okay, it’s okay.
Corey Critser (37:01):
Back in the days.
Tanya Musgrave (37:03):
I get it, I get it, the newest, the Titan Tubes were things that were, I’m just like, are you kidding me? Are you actually kidding me that they have this kind of technology these days? And the kids, they’re there with their iPad, and they’re controlling every single one of their-
Corey Critser (37:19):
On their DMX board.
Tanya Musgrave (37:19):
On their DMX controllers and I’m just like, I’m so far behind. This is why I ask everybody for their favorite, this is how I keep up to date. So another favorite question that I have is a story of when something went wrong and what you did to fix it or grow from it.
Emily Critser (37:41):
So many to choose from.
Corey Critser (37:43):
I can tell you one photo shoot, I’ve never been rained out on a shoot before, except one time, I was just thinking about it the day. Was we had this whole photo shoot planned, and it was all outdoors, and this big crew, and a lot of money, and then a storm came.
Emily Critser (37:58):
In Kentucky.
Corey Critser (37:59):
Yeah. And we were like, okay, how do we spin this, instead of just sitting there and staring at rain. It was a lifestyle campaign for a client that needed a library of images for their own personal stock photos, so they just wanted models to interact, it was farm style. So people living and working around a farm, and farm life. And I was like, okay, what can we do in the rain? So instead of just not doing anything and just twiddling our thumbs we shot rain scenes.
Tanya Musgrave (38:37):
Ah, gotcha.
Corey Critser (38:38):
So it was kids jumping in puddles of mud, we shot them playing in the rain, we shot a macro of water on plants. You have to find opportunities when things are failing, because if you don’t, then you’re just not being a very good leader.
Tanya Musgrave (38:58):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (38:59):
You got to keep everybody positive, even though you know it’s all going to hell in a hand basket.
Emily Critser (39:05):
Moral of that story is get a really, really, really good crew. We brought on a really great crew, I think why we have trouble, I mean, things go wrong all the time.
Corey Critser (39:15):
It is always because of crew, because there was another shoot that I bought, this is dumb, but I had no idea that there’s CF cards for cameras, and then there’s something else, a CFast card, or something.
Emily Critser (39:28):
Oh yeah.
Corey Critser (39:30):
So I got this camera, and I got this big cine lens, and then I got all my CF cards out that I rented, and none of them fit, and it was the day of the shoot and I was like, we don’t have any cards. So I sent a very great assistant to go buy fist fulls of SD cards, and all they had was 32 gigabytes, and we’re shooting 4k, so I had like eight 32 gigabyte cards. So having a good crew who will have your back, and will run to Best Buy for you.
Emily Critser (39:57):
And in that, I remember on that shoot in the pouring rain, we really wanted a tire swing later, so we got, this girl is the most badass lady I know, and she’s a rock climber, and she was our assistant that day, and she shimming up a tree in a thunderstorm and rigged up a tire swing with all of her rock climbing stuff.
Tanya Musgrave (40:17):
That’s amazing.
Emily Critser (40:18):
And I told her not to do it, but all of her clothes also are just, she always wears waterproof clothes.
Tanya Musgrave (40:26):
Nice.
Corey Critser (40:26):
And Chacos.
Emily Critser (40:26):
Yep.
Corey Critser (40:28):
But she also rigged in a way that it was like a Alpine rig where you could just pull it off when you were done with it.
Tanya Musgrave (40:34):
And you didn’t have to climb back up.
Corey Critser (40:36):
Exactly, and they were like, “We like it so much we might keep it,” and she’s like, “Well you got to pay for all the gear I just used.”
Emily Critser (40:43):
So I think bringing on really good crew that you can rely on, and has a good attitude, and isn’t going to bring down the mood, because the mood is so important.
Corey Critser (40:53):
Problem solving is a special skill to have in what we do. We also found, this was the same client. They were a problem, they were a problem.
Emily Critser (41:05):
We don’t talk about them.
Corey Critser (41:08):
They wanted dirt bikers for a scene and we’re like, I didn’t know.
Emily Critser (41:11):
Oh yeah, they told me the day before that they had to have dirt bikers, and I was like, “You cannot tell me this now.” But anyway, I contacted a local dirt biking-
Corey Critser (41:22):
Company.
Emily Critser (41:24):
There was a dirt track, and so I called the dirt racing track and I was like, “Hey, do you know anybody who might be able to come and race dirt bikes around this place for the shoot?” And they’re like, “No, we’re in,” what was it? Something Kentucky.
Corey Critser (41:39):
Versailles.
Emily Critser (41:40):
“We’re in Versailles, Kentucky.” No, it’s called Versailles, Corey.
Corey Critser (41:43):
Sorry.
Emily Critser (41:43):
Your cousin’s from Versailles, Versailles, okay, it’s Versailles, Kentucky.
Tanya Musgrave (41:47):
Insane.
Emily Critser (41:47):
“We are in Versailles, Kentucky, about an hour outside of Louisville.” Yeah, so I called the dirt bike people, he’s like, “I don’t know anybody who can do that,” I said, “Well, do you have any dirt bikes sir?” And he was like, “Well, I have a couple, I mean, what?” And I was like, “I will pay you $400 cash, 200 upfront, two at the end,” and guess what, we showed up, there were four dirt bikes, kid bikes, all this crap, he got it all.”
Corey Critser (42:12):
They were legit.
Emily Critser (42:13):
He’s like, “It’s real dirty,” I said, “Good.”
Corey Critser (42:15):
They wanted it authentic.
Emily Critser (42:16):
And so whenever I walked up to him I said, “Here’s your 200 now, I’ll give you 200 at the end,” and they were the best people.
Corey Critser (42:23):
They’re better than models we would’ve hired.
Emily Critser (42:25):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (42:25):
And the client had no idea.
Emily Critser (42:27):
So I know it’s not a great trick, but cash.
Corey Critser (42:28):
They were like, “Great, you found dirt bikers,” we were like, “Yeah, it was so easy.”
Emily Critser (42:31):
It was not, and a good thing is saying, “I will pay you cash,” that works pretty well.
Corey Critser (42:38):
She’s an awesome producer.
Tanya Musgrave (42:39):
Yeah. Oh, we’re going to have lots of conversations in the years to come, I hope you guys know, just throwing that out there.
Corey Critser (42:48):
Yeah, good.
Emily Critser (42:48):
Cash.
Tanya Musgrave (42:49):
I do have a question to wrap up, what questions should I have asked you?
Corey Critser (42:53):
Ooh.
Emily Critser (42:53):
How do you manage a family?
Corey Critser (42:58):
How do you manage work life balance.
Tanya Musgrave (43:00):
Okay.
Emily Critser (43:00):
I don’t know, it’s hard, babysitters.
Corey Critser (43:03):
Do not work in the, you can’t work in the same place that you live, whether that’s the same room, or same area. So we have our studio, and everyone has a studio, I get that, but there’s a room where you work, and then there’s a room where you just have your family time. First of all, we don’t talk business after 6:00 PM, because-
Emily Critser (43:24):
Try not to.
Corey Critser (43:24):
We try not to, unless it’s a really, really big job and they’ve got deadlines the next day and everything’s going crazy.
Emily Critser (43:30):
And I need to get a dirt biker.
Corey Critser (43:31):
And I need to find a dirt biker, otherwise we really just don’t, we try not to talk work after 6:00, that’s just family time. You have to have that time to just set aside to relax. And we met this photographer in another Palm Spring Photo Festival, his name’s Sandro Miller, and he has his work area is in his house, but it’s upstairs, and he says when he comes downstairs, no more work, no more shop talk, no more work. Just being able to separate that from your work life and family life is important. If I’m getting work emails from someone at 10:30, someone better be dying, because I’m not reading that.
Emily Critser (44:06):
Or there better be a lot of money attached.
Corey Critser (44:07):
Or there better be a lot of money. I just don’t do work emails that way.
Emily Critser (44:11):
No.
Corey Critser (44:11):
Because there’s nothing that important that I can’t wait until the next morning.
Tanya Musgrave (44:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Corey Critser (44:18):
Unless he shoots the next morning and you’re telling me that it’s canceled.
Emily Critser (44:20):
I think honestly, if I can-
Corey Critser (44:20):
Or it’s the call sheet, but you can send call sheets anytime.
Emily Critser (44:27):
If I can be candid about it, I personally, my opinion, is that in the professional world, it’s pretty unprofessional to send work emails at 2:00 AM, unless you absolutely have to.
Corey Critser (44:40):
Unless it’s a call sheet.
Emily Critser (44:41):
If somebody sends me an email at 3:00 AM I look at Corey and I go, “This person’s crazy.”
Tanya Musgrave (44:46):
They’re the ones that don’t have families and they’re single. I’m just throwing it out there.
Emily Critser (44:56):
It’s okay, it’s fine.
Tanya Musgrave (44:56):
I’m a night owl, I’m a night owl.
Emily Critser (44:56):
You got to do what you got to do, it’s true, it’s true, it’s true.
Corey Critser (44:59):
Yeah Emily, why are you judging people?
Emily Critser (45:02):
No, I’m just saying, when you’re working with corporate America.
Tanya Musgrave (45:05):
This is true.
Emily Critser (45:06):
I don’t know, go to sleep.
Tanya Musgrave (45:08):
No, no, no, when I had my 9:00 to 5:00, I will say, I left work at work, and there was nothing that could make me check a work email past those hours. As a freelancer it’s a bit harder for me to draw those, mainly just because I am a night owl so I end up staying up late anyway.
Corey Critser (45:24):
Because you’re-
Tanya Musgrave (45:24):
That’s my unpopular opinion for the day.
Corey Critser (45:27):
Because you’re hustling, you’re hustling for it, and that’s great, and that’s great. But if you have a family, I think like we do, with two kids and absolutely and a dog, and all that, it’s a lot to manage, and if I don’t separate those things out.
Tanya Musgrave (45:43):
Exactly.
Emily Critser (45:44):
Nobody will.
Corey Critser (45:46):
Well, you can’t separate entirely, I have kids stuff all over my studio.
Emily Critser (45:49):
Yeah, trucks everywhere.
Corey Critser (45:51):
This is Caleb’s daycare when it’s not being used for work.
Emily Critser (45:54):
Yeah, two month old and a two year old.
Tanya Musgrave (45:57):
Yeah.
Emily Critser (45:57):
I don’t know, we’re figuring that one out.
Corey Critser (45:58):
I don’t know, was that a good, was that a good? I don’t want to judge people, I don’t want people to feel like we’re uppity.
Tanya Musgrave (46:04):
No, no, no.
Corey Critser (46:04):
I just, I have to keep it separated.
Tanya Musgrave (46:06):
No, and I think, here’s the thing, we actually talk a lot about this, about work life balance and boundaries, and there’s a quote that I love, and it is that rest is a discipline, just as much as work.
Emily Critser (46:22):
Oh, I like that.
Tanya Musgrave (46:23):
Yeah.
Corey Critser (46:23):
Rest is a discipline.
Tanya Musgrave (46:24):
And it’s something that should be worked for.
Corey Critser (46:27):
Well, the mental creative mind is a muscle, and it also needs time to rest or else it can’t repair and grow.
Tanya Musgrave (46:36):
So how do people find you or follow your work?
Emily Critser (46:38):
Lanewoodstudio.com, just one studio no more, L-A-N-E-W-O-O-D-S-T-U-D-I-O, we also have an Instagram.
Tanya Musgrave (46:47):
You guys, thank you so much. This has been an amazing conversation, I think it’s really great to explore the edges of our career if we want to expand, or not expand in that particular direction, but I think knowing the options is really important. So thank you so much for your insight.
Emily Critser (47:03):
Thank you.
Corey Critser (47:03):
Absolutely, thanks for having us, this was a lot of fun.
Tanya Musgrave (47:06):
If you enjoyed this interview, follow us right here and on Instagram, ask us questions, and check out more episodes to thepracticalfilmmaker.com. Be well and God bless, we’ll see you next time on The Practical Filmmaker.